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ssj12 on 31 March 2011

Oil mostly, but also change leaders. We put Gaddafi in power, now he refused to obey us, do we are changing leaders to a new puppet.



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Rath on 31 March 2011
ssj12 said:

Oil mostly, but also change leaders. We put Gaddafi in power, now he refused to obey us, do we are changing leaders to a new puppet.


The US didn't put Gaddafi in power and he was never a US puppet.



ssj12 on 31 March 2011
Rath said:
ssj12 said:

Oil mostly, but also change leaders. We put Gaddafi in power, now he refused to obey us, do we are changing leaders to a new puppet.


The US didn't put Gaddafi in power and he was never a US puppet.


opps, your right. He defeated our puppet and took over. And created one of the wealthiest nations in Africa. So actually, he pissed the US off by taking over a nation we controlled. So actually, he isn't evil at all.

http://moraloutrage.wordpress.com/2011/03/03/muammar-gaddafi-of-libya/



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ssj12 on 31 March 2011

damn DDoS attack. piss off Redditers!!!!!



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Kasz216 on 31 March 2011
Games4Fun said:

Why in the world are we "USA" in libya? From what I understood congress was not even included on the decision making on this too. When did NATO members become the only people to ask about going to war?


Because Barak Obama has the same flaw that Bush did.  Idealism over pragmatism combined with a love of Democracy.



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Kasz216 on 31 March 2011
Mr Khan said:
MDMAniac said:
Joelcool7 said:

Libya accounts for around 4% of the world's oil supply.


But that oil is one of the highest quality around, don't forget that. I don't stand folks diminishing the strategic significance of Libya in case say land operation is required. There are already more than enough commiesque people hanging around those boards saying there is nothing for US in Libya. This is full of BS!

The region is very very important and all the possible operations there will benefit US in the future. The only thing I don't understand why they are so hesitant to extend the managed chaos to other rebelling countries. Like Bahrain.

Actually the lefties around here seem at least neutral on the issue, or in support of it (ManusJustus and I both do, and we're two of the more acerbic leftwingers around here)

On these boards, the libertarians seem to be the ones in opposition

It's not just the boards.

The amazing flip flop of so many people has amused me greatly.

In general, outside a few people with nuanced stances it's made it a lot easier for me to tell who to respect and who not to when it comes to political opinion.



Kasz216 on 31 March 2011

Oooooh boy.

It looks like Obama may of pulled a Reagan.



Rath on 31 March 2011
ssj12 said:
Rath said:
ssj12 said:

Oil mostly, but also change leaders. We put Gaddafi in power, now he refused to obey us, do we are changing leaders to a new puppet.


The US didn't put Gaddafi in power and he was never a US puppet.


opps, your right. He defeated our puppet and took over. And created one of the wealthiest nations in Africa. So actually, he pissed the US off by taking over a nation we controlled. So actually, he isn't evil at all.

http://moraloutrage.wordpress.com/2011/03/03/muammar-gaddafi-of-libya/

I posted a reply to this, don't know where it went.

Essentially, high HDI doesn't change the fact that Gaddafi is a brutal evil tyrant. That's not what the HDI measures. Better measures for how much of a brutal dictator he is are things measuring human rights, press freedoms and political freedoms.

http://www.hrw.org/en/world-report-2011

http://www.freedomhouse.org/images/File/fiw/Tables, Graphs, etc, FIW 2011_Revised 1_11_11.pdf

http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=560&year=2010

 

Also the UN Human Rights Council is sadly an intensely political organisation and is dominated by countries with poor human rights records, they really (and sadly) can't be taken seriously.

 

Edit: @Kasz. All of the three major military interventions this century by America have been very different. Opposing some while supporting others is not necessarily hypocritical.



dib8rman on 31 March 2011
scottie said:
Games4Fun said:

Why in the world are we "USA" in libya? From what I understood congress was not even included on the decision making on this too. When did NATO members become the only people to ask about going to war?


Because you are not in a war. You are undertaking a multinational peacekeeping mission. Wars require a congress vote, peacekeeping mission's do not. NATO and the UN are the ones with whom the issues should be discussed, not the politicians of any one country.

The usage of American Military period has to be reported to Congress within 48 hours of a conflict. The president has to explain why. It's not about declaring war, it is about preventing callous use of tax payers money and the endangering of Americans against the will of Americans.

It's one of those things that prevent the president from becoming the despot he's raising arms against. Illegally.



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ManusJustus on 31 March 2011
dib8rman said:
ManusJustus said:

Q: Why is the US in Libya?

A: Proximity to Europe plus oil.

Don't get me wrong though, I hope the US and NATO destroy Ghadafi's and the rebels get to extract revenge for 40 years of tyranny.  The opportunity to get rid of this mad man by assisting his own people who rose up against him is an opportunity we couldn't pass up.

Most of them aren't his own people, they are for the greater part illegal immigrants - some of whom moved to Libya from Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia only to fight US troops in Iraq.

Just a detail.

What?  Doesn't make sense no matter which way I go about it.