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Forums - Gaming - Why is it "illegal" to backup my games?

skeezer on 19 March 2011
d21lewis said:

Exactly why I "borrowed" a back-up car from the dealership.  If my original car breaks, are they gonna replace it?  Hell no!  And I'm NOT getting insurance, either.  I heard many retailers let you buy a protection plan for new (maybe even used) games.  I don't get that plan, either.  I've only had two games break in three decades.  One of them, I burned the scratches out with a cigarette lighter.  The other, I bit in half because it sucked.


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kitler53 on 19 March 2011
Khuutra said:
kitler53 said:

Now i'm extrapolating a bit here but I'm pretty sure video games sold in disc form has roughly the same user licensing agreements meaning making backup strictly speaking is illegal.

I apologize for being pedantic, but the EULA has little to do with it; in most jurisdictions, EULAs aren't legally enforceable. Nintendo says you're not allowed to have backups, but oh boy, you sure are.

lol - that is so increadibly misinformed.  Read up: it's a pretty famous case in which the US supreme court upheld an EULA.

Many EULAs haven't held up in court and that is because the law states that no EULA can force a consumer to give a right granted by US law.  But otherwise, it is just a contract to which you agreed to.

To my knowledge there hasn't been any court cases conserning video game backups which is why i gave the example of DVDs because it is the closest case of precidence.  Right now the lawsuit with Geohot is probably going to set a lot of standards.



Khuutra on 19 March 2011
kitler53 said:
Khuutra said:
kitler53 said:

Now i'm extrapolating a bit here but I'm pretty sure video games sold in disc form has roughly the same user licensing agreements meaning making backup strictly speaking is illegal.

I apologize for being pedantic, but the EULA has little to do with it; in most jurisdictions, EULAs aren't legally enforceable. Nintendo says you're not allowed to have backups, but oh boy, you sure are.

lol - that is so increadibly misinformed.  Read up: it's a pretty famous case in which the US supreme court upheld an EULA.

Many EULAs haven't held up in court and that is because the law states that no EULA can force a consumer to give a right granted by US law.  But otherwise, it is just a contract to which you agreed to.

To my knowledge there hasn't been any court cases conserning video game backups which is why i gave the example of DVDs because it is the closest case of precidence.  Right now the lawsuit with Geohot is probably going to set a lot of standards.

That single case doesn't really outline all of what we're tlaking about, here, especially since one can't agree to a brick-and-mortar video game's EULA without already paying for the product, which I recall being problematic for companies in the past.

I'm not really the guy to ask, I guess; noname is, since he's a law guy and is interested in this stuff. Still, I could have sworn...



mchaza on 19 March 2011

because you broke the terms and conditions when you did every single firmware update and when you logged into the software on PSN 



Of Course That's Just My Opinion, I Could Be Wrong

ssj12 on 19 March 2011
Soleron said:

It's not illegal, unless you circumvent DRM to do it and live in the US, in which case it violates the DMCA. But that's a stupid law, thankfully confined to the US for now, and really should be repealed.


They are making it worse, they are trying to pass a law that if you watch an illegal video on youtube you can be thrown in jail and fined for copyright infringement.



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twesterm on 19 March 2011

It's "illegal" (I'm not entirely sure it's actually illegal, I don't know) because when you pay $60 at Gamestop or wherever you're not buying a game, you're only buying a license and that license only allows you to do certain things and puts certain responsibilities on you.  One of those things the license explicitly forbids you to do is copy the content on that disc.

That means the content on the disc is not yours and that license expects you to take good care of your product.  If you wreck your car, Ford is not going to buy you a new car.  If you drop your hamburger, McDonald's is not obligated to give you a new hamburger.  If you drop a plate, Target isn't going to buy you a new one.  If you scratch your disc, Activision is not obligated to give you a new one. All of these assume your own negligence and it's only your fault if you break them.

I'm not trying to say don't backup your games or say piracy is wrong, that's another thread, I'm just saying the reasoning behind it.  It's your responsibility to keep your disc in good working order.  If you choose to do that through backing up, so be it, just know you're breaking some sort of terms of use.



 

twesterm on 19 March 2011
Galaki said:

If it's not illegal, then why it is impossible for me to play from backup without going through modding my system? Which is not what I wanted to do.


They want the system as closed as possible because if they didn't, something like the Dreamcast would happen.  You could simply copy a disc and play it, backup or not, so that's what people did. 



 

mjk45 on 19 March 2011

Once upon a time backing up was necessary tape drives and floppy discs weren't that reliable ,now with better tech ,game protection schemes ,disc cleaners an abundance of used games etc it is less so.



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Kasz216 on 19 March 2011
Mr Khan said:
Galaki said:

If it's not illegal, then why it is impossible for me to play from backup without going through modding my system? Which is not what I wanted to do.

Just because you're legally allowed to do something doesn't mean the corporation is obligated to make it easy for you to do so. Where they cross the line is when they cross away from "not making it easy," to, "altering or destroying your private property" in pursuit of those goals

If someone says... "You can legally play this Kazoo" then put sthe kazoo in a box and says "It's illegal for you to open this box."

I'd say that has to be a violation.



Kasz216 on 19 March 2011
twesterm said:

It's "illegal" (I'm not entirely sure it's actually illegal, I don't know) because when you pay $60 at Gamestop or wherever you're not buying a game, you're only buying a license and that license only allows you to do certain things and puts certain responsibilities on you.  One of those things the license explicitly forbids you to do is copy the content on that disc.

That means the content on the disc is not yours and that license expects you to take good care of your product.  If you wreck your car, Ford is not going to buy you a new car.  If you drop your hamburger, McDonald's is not obligated to give you a new hamburger.  If you drop a plate, Target isn't going to buy you a new one.  If you scratch your disc, Activision is not obligated to give you a new one. All of these assume your own negligence and it's only your fault if you break them.

I'm not trying to say don't backup your games or say piracy is wrong, that's another thread, I'm just saying the reasoning behind it.  It's your responsibility to keep your disc in good working order.  If you choose to do that through backing up, so be it, just know you're breaking some sort of terms of use.

Which makes it a great thing that nobody needs the company to give them a new one in the case of backups?