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Forums - General - What would happen if U.S economy lost 1/3 its wages?

HappySqurriel said:

I forgot to mention that one of the consequences of reducing/eliminating welfare payments would be a reduction in the cost of living allowing many poor people to maintain or improve their current standard of living without depending on welfare subsidies.

Most Americans do not need improvements in their standard of living, as we I already have some of the highest standards in the world. Consumption would only increase in a country that already consumes way more of the world's resources than is our fair share.

If everyone lived to the standards of Americans there would quickly be nothing left. You also act as if you can blame poverty on laziness alone when there are always many factors contributing to it. Some people are not born with such luck as most Americans already have and many people suffer, from discrimination, poor mental health, physical disorders and many other problems that do not allow them to work for money.



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Chairman-Mao said:
Mr Khan said:
Chairman-Mao said:
Mr Khan said:
mrstickball said:

...And the savings would go to everyone in the 2/3rds to create new businesses to employ those needing the handouts?

You mean go to the 1% that pay the most in income taxes, which they would then invest in speculative overseas markets and ponzi schemes


I hope you were joking. 

Trickle down theory has been disproven, quite frankly. We don't need to be giving the rich more money when they have it better than they've had it in 70 years

I'm not talking about the rich getting richer or anything like that, I'm just hoping you're joking about every person in the top 1% having offshore accounts and ponzi schemes. Not every rich person is a tax evading piece of crap you know. 

If you are in the top 1% of the richest people than you have billions of dollars, are you saying that you are amongst the most rich in Canada?



chocoloco said:
Chairman-Mao said:
Mr Khan said:
Chairman-Mao said:
Mr Khan said:
mrstickball said:

...And the savings would go to everyone in the 2/3rds to create new businesses to employ those needing the handouts?

You mean go to the 1% that pay the most in income taxes, which they would then invest in speculative overseas markets and ponzi schemes


I hope you were joking. 

Trickle down theory has been disproven, quite frankly. We don't need to be giving the rich more money when they have it better than they've had it in 70 years

I'm not talking about the rich getting richer or anything like that, I'm just hoping you're joking about every person in the top 1% having offshore accounts and ponzi schemes. Not every rich person is a tax evading piece of crap you know. 

If you are in the top 1% of the richest people than you have billions of dollars, are you saying that you are amongst the most rich in Canada?


Umm billions? According to 2005 income data (for the USA) it only takes $350,000 to be in the top 1% of earners. I think you might be confusing top 1% with top 0.01% or something like that.

And to answer your question, I'm only 19 and don't have an income, so I'm not among the richest in Canada; but my family is. Both my Grandpa and Father did really well in business and would be in the top 1% if we were American.



Chairman-Mao said:
chocoloco said:
Chairman-Mao said:
Mr Khan said:
Chairman-Mao said:
Mr Khan said:
mrstickball said:

...And the savings would go to everyone in the 2/3rds to create new businesses to employ those needing the handouts?

You mean go to the 1% that pay the most in income taxes, which they would then invest in speculative overseas markets and ponzi schemes


I hope you were joking. 

Trickle down theory has been disproven, quite frankly. We don't need to be giving the rich more money when they have it better than they've had it in 70 years

I'm not talking about the rich getting richer or anything like that, I'm just hoping you're joking about every person in the top 1% having offshore accounts and ponzi schemes. Not every rich person is a tax evading piece of crap you know. 

If you are in the top 1% of the richest people than you have billions of dollars, are you saying that you are amongst the most rich in Canada?


Umm billions? According to 2005 income data (for the USA) it only takes $350,000 to be in the top 1% of earners. I think you might be confusing top 1% with top 0.01% or something like that.

And to answer your question, I'm only 19 and don't have an income, so I'm not among the richest in Canada; but my family is. Both my Grandpa and Father did really well in business and would be in the top 1% if we were American.

These data suggest that wealth is concentrated in the hands of a small number of families. The wealthiest 1 percent of families owns roughly 34.3%  of the nation's net worth, the top 10% of families owns over 71%, and the bottom 40% of the population owns way less than 1%.

I was just curious if you grew up in a wealthy family or not. I do not think all rich men do no care about others, but I do think money creates power. And as the saying goes all power corrupts indefinantly. I do not necassarily believe that is always true, but there is something wrong in a world were the privilidged few have all the power and can maintain it by keeping wealth in the family.
I am sure you family worked hard, but that does not mean that every person is born into this world with equal oppurtunity.



Chairman-Mao said:
Mr Khan said:
Chairman-Mao said:
Mr Khan said:
mrstickball said:

...And the savings would go to everyone in the 2/3rds to create new businesses to employ those needing the handouts?

You mean go to the 1% that pay the most in income taxes, which they would then invest in speculative overseas markets and ponzi schemes


I hope you were joking. 

Trickle down theory has been disproven, quite frankly. We don't need to be giving the rich more money when they have it better than they've had it in 70 years

I'm not talking about the rich getting richer or anything like that, I'm just hoping you're joking about every person in the top 1% having offshore accounts and ponzi schemes. Not every rich person is a tax evading piece of crap you know. 

You're right, i was being overly harsh, though half true in that even the moral ones sometimes don't know what's being done with their money (Spielberg got caught in Madoff, and i can't imagine him being entirely privvy to what was going on)



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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chocoloco said:
HappySqurriel said:

I forgot to mention that one of the consequences of reducing/eliminating welfare payments would be a reduction in the cost of living allowing many poor people to maintain or improve their current standard of living without depending on welfare subsidies.

Most Americans do not need improvements in their standard of living, as we I already have some of the highest standards in the world. Consumption would only increase in a country that already consumes way more of the world's resources than is our fair share.

If everyone lived to the standards of Americans there would quickly be nothing left. You also act as if you can blame poverty on laziness alone when there are always many factors contributing to it. Some people are not born with such luck as most Americans already have and many people suffer, from discrimination, poor mental health, physical disorders and many other problems that do not allow them to work for money.

First off, we have not hit some sort of ideal for standard of living in the western world; and there is no reason to become complacent with where we are simply because our standard of living is better than anyone has had in the history of humanity. Much like how the poor of today have a much better standard of living than the vast majority of people 100 years ago, I want to build a society where the poor people in 100 years have a better standard of living than the vast majority of us have today. As frustrating as it would be for us to witness, I strive to have an economy where poor people are upset that the rich people have access to a better quality of robot maid than they do.

 

With that said, I didn’t make a single claim about why people are poor; and I wouldn’t say that laziness was the primary factor. Poverty is caused by a combination of countless (mostly) well understood factors including lack of (or poor quality) education, work experience, job skills, social network, and financial literacy; or significant problems with drugs or alcohol, self-discipline and/or motivation, or emotional/behavioural problems. None of these problems are improved by the welfare system, and the majority of them get worse while a person is on welfare.

 



chocoloco said:
Chairman-Mao said:
chocoloco said:
Chairman-Mao said:
Mr Khan said:
Chairman-Mao said:
Mr Khan said:
mrstickball said:

...And the savings would go to everyone in the 2/3rds to create new businesses to employ those needing the handouts?

You mean go to the 1% that pay the most in income taxes, which they would then invest in speculative overseas markets and ponzi schemes


I hope you were joking. 

Trickle down theory has been disproven, quite frankly. We don't need to be giving the rich more money when they have it better than they've had it in 70 years

I'm not talking about the rich getting richer or anything like that, I'm just hoping you're joking about every person in the top 1% having offshore accounts and ponzi schemes. Not every rich person is a tax evading piece of crap you know. 

If you are in the top 1% of the richest people than you have billions of dollars, are you saying that you are amongst the most rich in Canada?


Umm billions? According to 2005 income data (for the USA) it only takes $350,000 to be in the top 1% of earners. I think you might be confusing top 1% with top 0.01% or something like that.

And to answer your question, I'm only 19 and don't have an income, so I'm not among the richest in Canada; but my family is. Both my Grandpa and Father did really well in business and would be in the top 1% if we were American.

 

I am sure you family worked hard, but that does not mean that every person is born into this world with equal oppurtunity.


I do agree that there are many people who are born into such a rough state that they have no opportunity to succeed but I do think a lot of poverty comes from laziness and/or bad life choices. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States#Role_of_education

Looking at the chart on Wikipedia there (i know not a good source but whatever) it shows a person with a Bachelors degree makes nearly twice as much as just a high school graduate ($26,000 vs $49,000). And in North America there is no excuse not to get into college/university. I know college/university is expensive but there are so many grants/scholarships available if a person works hard in high school (which is free via taxes) and even if you don't qualify for a scholarship you can get a government student loan (at least in Canada) which you don't have to start paying back until I think a couple years after you graduate, or it might even be after you find a job after graduating. 

I don't buy into that whole bull shit that the only opportunities poor black people have are either sports or joining gangs/selling drugs. Black people have just as much opportunity as white people to go to high school and get good marks and go to college. 



Id give to a charity?

I absolutely REFUSE to give to charity (at least to human charities).  I already give, its called paying taxes.

 



Chairman-Mao said:
chocoloco said:
Chairman-Mao said:
chocoloco said:
Chairman-Mao said:
Mr Khan said:
Chairman-Mao said:


I hope you were joking. 

Trickle down theory has been disproven, quite frankly. We don't need to be giving the rich more money when they have it better than they've had it in 70 years

I'm not talking about the rich getting richer or anything like that, I'm just hoping you're joking about every person in the top 1% having offshore accounts and ponzi schemes. Not every rich person is a tax evading piece of crap you know. 

If you are in the top 1% of the richest people than you have billions of dollars, are you saying that you are amongst the most rich in Canada?


Umm billions? According to 2005 income data (for the USA) it only takes $350,000 to be in the top 1% of earners. I think you might be confusing top 1% with top 0.01% or something like that.

And to answer your question, I'm only 19 and don't have an income, so I'm not among the richest in Canada; but my family is. Both my Grandpa and Father did really well in business and would be in the top 1% if we were American.

 

I am sure you family worked hard, but that does not mean that every person is born into this world with equal oppurtunity.


I do agree that there are many people who are born into such a rough state that they have no opportunity to succeed but I do think a lot of poverty comes from laziness and/or bad life choices. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States#Role_of_education

Looking at the chart on Wikipedia there (i know not a good source but whatever) it shows a person with a Bachelors degree makes nearly twice as much as just a high school graduate ($26,000 vs $49,000). And in North America there is no excuse not to get into college/university. I know college/university is expensive but there are so many grants/scholarships available if a person works hard in high school (which is free via taxes) and even if you don't qualify for a scholarship you can get a government student loan (at least in Canada) which you don't have to start paying back until I think a couple years after you graduate, or it might even be after you find a job after graduating. 

I don't buy into that whole bull shit that the only opportunities poor black people have are either sports or joining gangs/selling drugs. Black people have just as much opportunity as white people to go to high school and get good marks and go to college. 

As a college student myself, I know that there is a gigantic correlation between level of education and liftime amount of money earned. This still does not take away the fact that many more white people (including myself) are born into families with longer histories of wealth and education. This puts everyone of them at an advantage over any minority. The color of my skin alone gives me many advantages over those who were born with more melanin in theirs. Even though th largest amount of impoverished people are whites in the US this is probably only because this is still a country were the majority is mostly white.

I would never say people should use there bad luck as an excuse to not work hard and make something better for themselves, but many people have so much less benificial qualities, intelligance being one of the most important



chocoloco said:
Chairman-Mao said:
chocoloco said:
Chairman-Mao said:
chocoloco said:
Chairman-Mao said:
Mr Khan said:
Chairman-Mao said:


I hope you were joking. 

Trickle down theory has been disproven, quite frankly. We don't need to be giving the rich more money when they have it better than they've had it in 70 years

I'm not talking about the rich getting richer or anything like that, I'm just hoping you're joking about every person in the top 1% having offshore accounts and ponzi schemes. Not every rich person is a tax evading piece of crap you know. 

If you are in the top 1% of the richest people than you have billions of dollars, are you saying that you are amongst the most rich in Canada?


Umm billions? According to 2005 income data (for the USA) it only takes $350,000 to be in the top 1% of earners. I think you might be confusing top 1% with top 0.01% or something like that.

And to answer your question, I'm only 19 and don't have an income, so I'm not among the richest in Canada; but my family is. Both my Grandpa and Father did really well in business and would be in the top 1% if we were American.

 

I am sure you family worked hard, but that does not mean that every person is born into this world with equal oppurtunity.


I do agree that there are many people who are born into such a rough state that they have no opportunity to succeed but I do think a lot of poverty comes from laziness and/or bad life choices. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States#Role_of_education

Looking at the chart on Wikipedia there (i know not a good source but whatever) it shows a person with a Bachelors degree makes nearly twice as much as just a high school graduate ($26,000 vs $49,000). And in North America there is no excuse not to get into college/university. I know college/university is expensive but there are so many grants/scholarships available if a person works hard in high school (which is free via taxes) and even if you don't qualify for a scholarship you can get a government student loan (at least in Canada) which you don't have to start paying back until I think a couple years after you graduate, or it might even be after you find a job after graduating. 

I don't buy into that whole bull shit that the only opportunities poor black people have are either sports or joining gangs/selling drugs. Black people have just as much opportunity as white people to go to high school and get good marks and go to college. 

As a college student myself, I know that there is a gigantic correlation between level of education and liftime amount of money earned. This still does not take away the fact that many more white people (including myself) are born into families with longer histories of wealth and education. This puts everyone of them at an advantage over any minority. The color of my skin alone gives me many advantages over those who were born with more melanin in theirs. Even though th largest amount of impoverished people are whites in the US this is probably only because this is still a country were the majority is mostly white.

I would never say people should use there bad luck as an excuse to not work hard and make something better for themselves, but many people have so much less benificial qualities, intelligance being one of the most important


I don't really agree that being white is an advantage anymore. Honestly its starting to become a disadvantage if anything. I can tell you for a fact that if in Canada you want the most opportunity in life you want to be born Native, not white. If you are native your entire education is free (grade school, high school and university), you pay no tax on everyday items, and as well as your university being free you have a better chance of being accepted (there is a box to check on university applications if you are native, which automatically gives you better odds of being accepted).

I can't speak for the USA but in Canada being white is almost (not yet, but almost) a disadvantage. There is so much emphasis on helping minorities succeed that they forget about their majority.

I still see how its hard to be born black into an impoverished area but I think many use that as an excuse for failure. They'd rather not try to fulfill their potential, and blame their failure and poverty on the white man. If a white man fails and falls into poverty he has no such excuse. He can't blame anyone but himself, but as for any minority, he can just use the white man keeping him down as a cop out. "I dropped out of school at 14 but its totally not my fault, the white man is keeping me down"...shit like that.

I do feel bad for the lower class who tried their best and fell upon bad circumstances/bad luck andd are impoverished. Somehow there needs to be a way to help these types of people get back on their feet but not help the lazy assholes who don't try at life and still look for a handout so they have money to go to the liquor store and buy weed.