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Forums - Sony - Geohot Pleading with Community for Donations in PS3 Jailbreak Case

huaxiong90 on 22 February 2011
voty2000 said:

First off I have not spun anything, my viewpoint has been the same throughout.  My point the entire time has been that we should be able to do what we want with what we own as long as it's legal.  I only brought up the security flaw to show how crappy the other guys logic was, but it does fall in line with my viewpoint that we actually own what we buy. 

Apologies for the misunderstanding. The spinfest comment wasn't aimed at you. And yes, I agree with you here (see my latest response to Kasz).

I'm not arguing that geohot is a good guy, I have no real opinion on that because you and I don't know him.  I'm arguing that we should be able to modify our own stuff as long as we don't do anything illegal.  As long as he does not profit from or encourage illegal activity, he should have every right to distribute the code at will.  He made the PS3 more functional.  Look at all the Windows security flaws.  Someone posts the flaw, MS says oops and then fixes the flaw.  Nobody goes to court unless illegal activity has occurred, like taking over someones computer.  It's now in Sony's hands to come up with a solution and they will.  MS has kept hackers from ruining online gaming for awhile, so will Sony. 

He could very well be a good guy, I can't judge him as I never met him in person. When I said 'debatable' I was referring to him being an attention seeker. I just honestly think if he truly doesn't condone illegal acts with hardware, he wouldn't have left a code that can produce some very nasty results, and I'm not talking about online cheaters here.

You're the second person saying they simply want the best online experience.  Gaming is a hobby, nothing more.  I will never give up my consumer rights so I don't have to deal with a couple of hackers.  Hearing people have this viewpoint makes me think Patriot Act all over again.

Again, this was a misunderstanding. See my conversation with Kasz, and you'll see why I'm concerned. It's not about online experience anymore...it's about online security as a whole.

I worded my previous response poorly. Hopefully this further clarified my stance.



Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!

Kojima: Come out with Project S already!

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Kasz216 on 22 February 2011
huaxiong90 said:
Kasz216 said:

I mean, PSN got hacked... but that was something completely seperate... and scary actually.

You'd be surprised all the data farming Sony is doing off you... that I woulda thought would be illegal because usually they need to tell you this stuff.  Everything from what TV you have your PS3 hooked up to, what controllers you use etc...

Also, apparently when you use your credit card it's COMPLETELY UNENCRYPTED when sent to Sony.  Which is just... unbelievably stupid.

This is another reason I'm not pleased with either side. Sony screwed up big time with DD transactions, and geohot exposing such dangers makes it a whole lot worse.

Sony better learn from this...this is one gargantuan flaw in their security. And by that, I mean using safer means of keeping information rather than just screwing over the consumers with dirty schemes like the outlandish one that was proposed a few months ago (rumor, but still).

Honestly too thinking about it.  They shouldn't even be able to get people framed is Sony is in the least bit smart about this.

I mean, they can tell what kind of TV your using, your IP, your controllers all that shit.  There should be so many ways to ban someone and notice it's the same jackasses.

Of course, these are the same people that are claiming Geohot has a PSN ID... when they have his IP... they know the IP's of everyone on PSN... and it turns out he doesn't have a PSN ID.  Sony's prosecution in general has been sloppy.  It may actually be dismissed come April 8th.

 

What dirty scheme though?



huaxiong90 on 22 February 2011
Kasz216 said:
huaxiong90 said:
Kasz216 said:

I mean, PSN got hacked... but that was something completely seperate... and scary actually.

You'd be surprised all the data farming Sony is doing off you... that I woulda thought would be illegal because usually they need to tell you this stuff.  Everything from what TV you have your PS3 hooked up to, what controllers you use etc...

Also, apparently when you use your credit card it's COMPLETELY UNENCRYPTED when sent to Sony.  Which is just... unbelievably stupid.

This is another reason I'm not pleased with either side. Sony screwed up big time with DD transactions, and geohot exposing such dangers makes it a whole lot worse.

Sony better learn from this...this is one gargantuan flaw in their security. And by that, I mean using safer means of keeping information rather than just screwing over the consumers with dirty schemes like the outlandish one that was proposed a few months ago (rumor, but still).

Honestly too thinking about it.  They shouldn't even be able to get people framed is Sony is in the least bit smart about this.

I mean, they can tell what kind of TV your using, your IP, your controllers all that shit.  There should be so many ways to ban someone and notice it's the same jackasses.

Of course, these are the same people that are claiming Geohot has a PSN ID... when they have his IP... they know the IP's of everyone on PSN... and it turns out he doesn't have a PSN ID.  Sony's prosecution in general has been sloppy.  It may actually be dismissed come April 8th.

 

What dirty scheme though?

Something about each disc having an access code that can be used only a few times. Which is more or less an excuse to get rid of used game sales.



Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!

Kojima: Come out with Project S already!

bannedagain on 22 February 2011
Kasz216 said:

Oh... not sure if i mised this somewhere....

but it looks like he got donated all the money he needed... in 18 hours.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/107899-PS3-Hacker-Raised-All-the-Legal-Funds-Needed-to-Beat-Sony-in-a-Weekend

 That was a good read. I think he has every right to do what he did and that states it very well. However if this was MS sueing someone the comments would be way different. MS the money hungry  something or other. There would be no support for MS but since it is sony we get all this. If it was either one of the gaming companies, I say the law is the law and they should not be aloud to win a case like this

Good for him, seems sh-tty when someone can't win because of a money issue, when clearly they should.



bannedagain on 22 February 2011
voty2000 said:
huaxiong90 said:
voty2000 said:

I wouldn't make broad generalizations if they weren't true.  Never has this site been so anit-pirate and amazingly it occured after the PS3 was hacked.

That's fine, just please understand that what I'm worried about is if Sony's indeed incapable of solving this issue. Now you argue that it's Sony's fault for leaving a flaw in the system's security.

If geohot was the good guy he claims to be (which, based on his history, is debatable), he would NOT put such a system breaking code in the hands of the wrong people. That is why I'm not supporting him.

I honestly have no company or console allegiance. I'll just play and prefer the console that provides me the most entertainment.

Edit: Damn, no offense to some people here, but this thread turned into a spinfest.

First off I have not spun anything, my viewpoint has been the same throughout.  My point the entire time has been that we should be able to do what we want with what we own as long as it's legal.  I only brought up the security flaw to show how crappy the other guys logic was, but it does fall in line with my viewpoint that we actually own what we buy. 

I'm not arguing that geohot is a good guy, I have no real opinion on that because you and I don't know him.  I'm arguing that we should be able to modify our own stuff as long as we don't do anything illegal.  As long as he does not profit from or encourage illegal activity, he should have every right to distribute the code at will.  He made the PS3 more functional.  Look at all the Windows security flaws.  Someone posts the flaw, MS says oops and then fixes the flaw.  Nobody goes to court unless illegal activity has occurred, like taking over someones computer.  It's now in Sony's hands to come up with a solution and they will.  MS has kept hackers from ruining online gaming for awhile, so will Sony. 

You're the second person saying they simply want the best online experience.  Gaming is a hobby, nothing more.  I will never give up my consumer rights so I don't have to deal with a couple of hackers.  Hearing people have this viewpoint makes me think Patriot Act all over again.

AHHH the F'ing patriot act. F'ing bush. You had to bring it up. LOL.  Yea it is a bunch of bull. oH actually I found a picture of when they past the bill.





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fordy on 22 February 2011
huaxiong90 said:
Kasz216 said:

Here's the thing as I understand it based on what I know the hack does.


By "getting free stuff from PSN."

They don't mean LITERALLY from the PSN servers.   They mean you can get stuff that's on PSN for free, by downloading it online from other servers and tricking your PSN into authenticating it.  So it's no different from any other piracy.

By "framing others" what they mean is, you can change your console ID to get out of Console bans, and you could probably change your PSN ID to read as someone elses PSN ID framing others.

So that means Console and PSN ID bans should be eliminated and instead replaced with IP bans... which bans your internet connection.  So you can't connect to PSN from your house... so the worst you could do with that is go to a friends house and get them banned, or steal someones unprotected wi-fi and get them banned as well.

It sounds like the ideal way of dealing with it, but what's your take on the rumor of their ability to also unban themselves?

I'd say it has to do with ID impersonation. Because Sony are only banning by PS3 ID, people can get around it by simply supplying a different ID. It's the same way why they say they can ban others, by impersonating another PS3s ID and getting that banned too.

Sony put too much faith in the credentials of the client side identification. They need another effective tier of security between the PS3 and PSN.



Joel12345 on 22 February 2011
voty2000 said:
Joel12345 said:

I have a gun so I have the right to give it to who I want and shoot who I want.

Smart real smart.


No, because shooting someone is illegal.  In many states you have the right to give it to whoever you want though, as long as they aren't a felon.  I've got a legal 0.50 mussel loader that I bought from a buddy, no government involvement.  I love Mississippi.  The argument is that I can do with my PS3 what is legal, and modding without pirating should be legal.  That is what the case will address. 

Crappy analogy with no thought put into it.  It would work if shooting someone were legal but it does kind of work on the give it to whoever I want part though, as long as it's not a felon and it depends on the state.

Edit:  In the USA of course.  If guns are illegal in your country of residence then the entire analogy falls apart because possessing a gun is illegal.


Well thanks for making me feel stupid.

He is getting sued for modding it?

I haven't been folowing this case but is it modding?



voty2000 on 22 February 2011
Joel12345 said:
voty2000 said:
Joel12345 said:

I have a gun so I have the right to give it to who I want and shoot who I want.

Smart real smart.


No, because shooting someone is illegal.  In many states you have the right to give it to whoever you want though, as long as they aren't a felon.  I've got a legal 0.50 mussel loader that I bought from a buddy, no government involvement.  I love Mississippi.  The argument is that I can do with my PS3 what is legal, and modding without pirating should be legal.  That is what the case will address. 

Crappy analogy with no thought put into it.  It would work if shooting someone were legal but it does kind of work on the give it to whoever I want part though, as long as it's not a felon and it depends on the state.

Edit:  In the USA of course.  If guns are illegal in your country of residence then the entire analogy falls apart because possessing a gun is illegal.


Well thanks for making me feel stupid.

He is getting sued for modding it?

I haven't been folowing this case but is it mod


He's being sued for exploiting a security flaw in the PS3 and releasing it to the public, giving users complete control over the system.  He has not pirated and disabled the ability to pirate in his released mod.  The community quickly changed his stuff to be able to pirate games though, which was to be expected.  It's kind of a grey area legally because when most people get convicted for this kind of thing they usually do something illegal with the flaw they found, not for publishing the flaw. 



alekth on 22 February 2011

Probably Sony's strongest point is him distributing it. But yes, he's also getting sued for circumventing access control measures.

I think Sony might have gotten a lot less negative reactions if they had simply sued for distributing his tools and the numbers. Other than the modding they are also suing for unauthorized computer access (Sony has to authorize you to tinker with your PS3?) and tresspassing on Sony's ownership to the PS3 (that you and others bought) among others.

In an age where my microwave is running its software, companies shouldn't be allowed to retain some retarded leasing model that would allow them to claim ownership of purchased products.



fordy on 22 February 2011
alekth said:

Sony might have gotten a lot less negative reactions if they had simply sued for distributing his tools and the numbers.


If Sony sued only for that, then the case would not exist. It would cost Sony too much in legal fees, and they wouldn't get anything in return. If anything, all they could do is say they succeeded in bankrupting Geohot, and I don't think that's something that the shareholders would approve of.

Let's be clear here. Sony is going forward with this case in order to rewrite the law for their benefit. That is the only thing that they hope to gain from this.