All they need to do is move to IP bans instead of Profile and console bans.

They just prefer profile and console bans because it makes them more money.

Dude cheats enough so you can ban him?   Great, now he has to rebuy all his downloadable content.

Same reason Steam just VAC bans your entire account rather then just locking you out of the vac servers on the game you cheat on.

Yeah, but if the rumors about them getting free stuff from PSN are true, then there is zero point to do this. Granted, steam was supposedly hacked a few times, but you gotta question the difference in security between the Ps Store and Steam.

I hope IP bans would suffice, if circumventing them is difficult (little to no knowledge on how this works).

That, and I just wonder how much truth there is to the claim about being able to frame others.

I really do hope you're right and that they do find a way to keep it secure, my skepticism stems from all the reports I've recently been hearing.

And I understand the general sentiment, and I'm against that too, as stated by my numerous comments. I can assure you, and everyone else here that *if* let's say Sony wins and uses this as an excuse to take away rights from the people, I will unplug my PS3 and will NOT give them any of my money until they drop the newly imposed laws. In fact, I'll bet their sales will drop significantly.

But I'm glad you're at least being civil about this.

Here's the thing as I understand it based on what I know the hack does.

By "getting free stuff from PSN."

They don't mean LITERALLY from the PSN servers.   They mean you can get stuff that's on PSN for free, by downloading it online from other servers and tricking your PSN into authenticating it.  So it's no different from any other piracy.

By "framing others" what they mean is, you can change your console ID to get out of Console bans, and you could probably change your PSN ID to read as someone elses PSN ID framing others.

So that means Console and PSN ID bans should be eliminated and instead replaced with IP bans... which bans your internet connection.  So you can't connect to PSN from your house... so the worst you could do with that is go to a friends house and get them banned, or steal someones unprotected wi-fi and get them banned as well.

It sounds like the ideal way of dealing with it, but what's your take on the rumor of their ability to also unban themselves?

I mean, PSN got hacked... but that was something completely seperate... and scary actually.

You'd be surprised all the data farming Sony is doing off you... that I woulda thought would be illegal because usually they need to tell you this stuff.  Everything from what TV you have your PS3 hooked up to, what controllers you use etc...

Also, apparently when you use your credit card it's COMPLETELY UNENCRYPTED when sent to Sony.  Which is just... unbelievably stupid.

It's illegal to modify someones work and then distribute for a profit or for the sole purpose of doing something illegal.  Geohotz is not doing that, people may do illegal things with it but he has not and does not condone it.

This is another reason I'm not pleased with either side. Sony screwed up big time with DD transactions, and geohot exposing such dangers makes it a whole lot worse.

Sony better learn from this...this is one gargantuan flaw in their security. And by that, I mean using safer means of keeping information rather than just screwing over the consumers with dirty schemes like the outlandish one that was proposed a few months ago (rumor, but still).

First off I have not spun anything, my viewpoint has been the same throughout.  My point the entire time has been that we should be able to do what we want with what we own as long as it's legal.  I only brought up the security flaw to show how crappy the other guys logic was, but it does fall in line with my viewpoint that we actually own what we buy. 

I'm not arguing that geohot is a good guy, I have no real opinion on that because you and I don't know him.  I'm arguing that we should be able to modify our own stuff as long as we don't do anything illegal.  As long as he does not profit from or encourage illegal activity, he should have every right to distribute the code at will.  He made the PS3 more functional.  Look at all the Windows security flaws.  Someone posts the flaw, MS says oops and then fixes the flaw.  Nobody goes to court unless illegal activity has occurred, like taking over someones computer.  It's now in Sony's hands to come up with a solution and they will.  MS has kept hackers from ruining online gaming for awhile, so will Sony. 

You're the second person saying they simply want the best online experience.  Gaming is a hobby, nothing more.  I will never give up my consumer rights so I don't have to deal with a couple of hackers.  Hearing people have this viewpoint makes me think Patriot Act all over again.

The concept of people unbanning themselves/getting others banned is scaremongering at this point. We don't even know on which criteria Sony would ban, but simply getting a legit console ID isn't trivial, they can't brute force that. They'd have to get them from somewhere, and that cannot be from OFW users because those don't know the ID to be able to give away it neither can they run unapproved code to have it stolen from them. Then the username... these things still have passwords. Making your PS3 broadcast someone elses email/nickname isn't going to get you logged in, password is verified on Sony's side.

IP bans are not completely efficient since a lot of people are on dynamic IPs and banning ranges would lead to banning people simply using the same ISP. Then there are also proxies and VPNs.

As for the credit card info being sent unencrypted, from what I understand - it wasn't. It's sent via https, and the only time it wasn't actually encrypted was when people bypassed PSN login version check by directing their connection to a fake SSL certificate. Maybe it's possible to further secure that data, but for people simply using their unmodded PS3 it's safe.