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Forums - General - Mubarack steps down.

elticker on 15 February 2011
ProdigyBam said:
elticker said:

he is literaly a war hero. he is appreciated by every egyptain as the reason for our success in the yum kippur war. he died a day before mubarak leaving pwoer a huge military parade was organised to honour his service


Lol succses?

You attacked israel out of nothing when they had their biggest holyday, if that is called a succses..


also you do know that israels policy is that if war is eminent then israel would launch a pre emptive strike, so i don't see how israel having its biggest holyday have to do with the subject if thats os then you could argue that we also had our holy month ramadan where we don't eat or drink from dawn till sunset therefore why we tactically lost if thats you logic but i don't use such a logic casue it is irrelevant to the arguement.



 

 

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elticker on 15 February 2011
Kasz216 said:
elticker said:
Joelcool7 said:
elticker said:
 


oh yah did you see the video of the car of the US embassy running down protesters,

As Kaz said it was stolen. But even if it wasn't did you see the video's of Egyptian protestors attacking pretty much anyone foreign? CTV, CBC, Fox, CNN all were reporting that their journalists were being attacked by Egyptian protestors. A group of Canadian journalists were pulled from their cars and the translator said the egyptians planned on killing them, luckily the army intervened and rescued them.

Canada, the US and other countries only supported the Egyptian Government all these years because they were the Government. You say Egyptian's don't like the US playing around with your countries affairs, as such what did you expect them to do? Come into Egypt topple the Government and insert democracy? Wouldn't that have been meddaling in your affairs? Or should the US have boycott your Government and sanctioned the shit out of it?

The US Canada and other governments respected Egypts soveirnty and did not meddle in your countries affairs anymore then any other country. Sure they signed peace agreements and trade but they always respected your countries independance.

Egyptians would be just as mad if America meddled and intervened militarily to instal democracy. The US and Canada helped get Mubarak to step down. They have done everything they could for the egyptian people.

 

P.S- which University in Canada you going too?

actually mubaraks fucked the US. They ordered him ot step down and give power to sulieman on thursday, he instead gave it to the army on thursday but his son edited the clip so that he didn't resign and give power to sulieman. that was on thursday, the next day sulieman read the speach which gave power to the army and both army generals in control, al musheer tantawy and al fariq anan don't like israel as they have fought against them in the 1973 war. 

Waw what accusation you give us, these were the secret police who were attacking reporters, let me ask you a question if it was us the people attacking news reporters then why wasn't the american embassy destroyed or israeli embassy for this matter, why wheren't protesters burning israeli and american flags, why weren't we holding anti american signs? give me a reason for why we didn't do that and would attack news reporters.

im applied for U of T for biological science along with western ontario, algoma for computer science and waterloo for mechanical. 


How did that "fuck the US."  They wanted him to give the power to someone else and transition to democracy.  He did that.  When they suggested sulemin he was the only one at the time that made sense.  Then the military decided they'd be willing to make a transition, and they let them do it.  I find it odd, you couldn't find a way to argue with any of my post, yet still continue with the general ignorance about America's perferred position in this.   Cognitive Dissonance, much?  I mean, this could and up being a positive huge change in your countries history.  You'd think you'd want to have an accurate view of it.  I mean, if you were Egypt i'd get it... cause Obama really botched it by reacting too much behind the scenes and sending the wrong person to demand his removal.  However from someone in Canada... it should be pretty eaisly to see the truth.

I mean heck.  The US has been funding "Pro Democracy" groups in Egypt for quite a while now... well before these protests.  They gave money to the regime too... but as part of a trade deal for expedited travel through the Suez and for the peace treaty with Israel.

http://www.thenational.ae/news/worldwide/middle-east/us-gave-material-support-to-pro-democracy-groups-in-egypt-wikileaks

Besides, unlesess the generals plans are to "Start a war with Israel immediatly before putting in a democracy" I don't see how it would really matter who the middle men are.... and if they did that, there would be about zero percent of democracy happening.

actually the US didn't even know there was going to be a revolution they were just playing cath up as everytime they made a stance they were too late, they didn't predict that there was goign to be a revolution which then cause criticism to the CIA. America wanted pwoer to sulieman because he is their partner and israel wanted him too as the wikileaks leaked documents shown. You as a foreign citizen don't understand what mubarak meant when he said in his third speach that he will not listen to america, so instead of putting sulieman in power like he told them he put the army, i am not a politicain but i do know that the army generals don't like the USA intervention in egyptain affairs.

They know have much less control over egypt than what they would have had if sulieman was president or when mubarak was president. That is how you fuck someone over by decreasing their control of a situation.Also egypt isn't going to war with israel anytime soon. america was trying to convince mubarak for a long time to do economic reforms and introduce democracy so the country stays stable and no revolution occurs anyone thinking otherwise isn't thinking deep enough. why the fuck would the USA want to risk a revolution in which the muslim brotherhood could get to power or another power which might risk the stability of the middle east especailly that we as egyptains were callign for years for a change in gass prices that we sell gas to israel for we were selling at a third of the global rpice and egyptains wanted us to sell it at full price but mubarak refused.



 

 

Rath on 15 February 2011
elticker said:
ProdigyBam said:
elticker said:

he is literaly a war hero. he is appreciated by every egyptain as the reason for our success in the yum kippur war. he died a day before mubarak leaving pwoer a huge military parade was organised to honour his service


Lol succses?

You attacked israel out of nothing when they had their biggest holyday, if that is called a succses..


you do know that a country should be prepared in anytime for a war right especailly a state like israel which its existance depends largely on the military, so them not being able to fend off the attack and we destroying the strongest line of defence at that time the bar lev line using water cannons, also sadat didn't listen to elshazly which led to the loss of 250 tanks for no gain and then the encirclment of the third army so yes he was the hero that was never given the role he played. you certainly seem to not have read deeply into the 1973 war, sad how he was jailed by mubarak for 3 years and how sadat fired him from the military. Some of the comments remind me of how america expected israel to completly destroy egypt and syria within 24-72 hours. Underestimating the strength of your opponent is one of the biggest mistakes you can make and such israel was going to use nuclear weapons against us just shows how good our performance was compared with any of the other wars. The thing is though israel would never attack an arab country cause if it did it won't get any help from the US and israel can't survive in an all out war without the US. 

 

It is impressive how well trained the israeli military is but i guess you gotta do what you gotta do to survive and israel without its military it would have dissapeared from the map a long time ago. BTW anyone have any opinoins on who would win in an all out war iran or israel, ignore the use of nuclear weapons in the debate.

Opinions on a war between Israel and Iran? Israel.

Iran may have more troops but the Israeli technology is spectacularly more advanced. They have twice the military budget and a lot of technological backing from the United States which is hugely important.



Kasz216 on 15 February 2011
elticker said:
Kasz216 said:
elticker said:
Joelcool7 said:
elticker said:
 


oh yah did you see the video of the car of the US embassy running down protesters,

As Kaz said it was stolen. But even if it wasn't did you see the video's of Egyptian protestors attacking pretty much anyone foreign? CTV, CBC, Fox, CNN all were reporting that their journalists were being attacked by Egyptian protestors. A group of Canadian journalists were pulled from their cars and the translator said the egyptians planned on killing them, luckily the army intervened and rescued them.

Canada, the US and other countries only supported the Egyptian Government all these years because they were the Government. You say Egyptian's don't like the US playing around with your countries affairs, as such what did you expect them to do? Come into Egypt topple the Government and insert democracy? Wouldn't that have been meddaling in your affairs? Or should the US have boycott your Government and sanctioned the shit out of it?

The US Canada and other governments respected Egypts soveirnty and did not meddle in your countries affairs anymore then any other country. Sure they signed peace agreements and trade but they always respected your countries independance.

Egyptians would be just as mad if America meddled and intervened militarily to instal democracy. The US and Canada helped get Mubarak to step down. They have done everything they could for the egyptian people.

 

P.S- which University in Canada you going too?

actually mubaraks fucked the US. They ordered him ot step down and give power to sulieman on thursday, he instead gave it to the army on thursday but his son edited the clip so that he didn't resign and give power to sulieman. that was on thursday, the next day sulieman read the speach which gave power to the army and both army generals in control, al musheer tantawy and al fariq anan don't like israel as they have fought against them in the 1973 war. 

Waw what accusation you give us, these were the secret police who were attacking reporters, let me ask you a question if it was us the people attacking news reporters then why wasn't the american embassy destroyed or israeli embassy for this matter, why wheren't protesters burning israeli and american flags, why weren't we holding anti american signs? give me a reason for why we didn't do that and would attack news reporters.

im applied for U of T for biological science along with western ontario, algoma for computer science and waterloo for mechanical. 


How did that "fuck the US."  They wanted him to give the power to someone else and transition to democracy.  He did that.  When they suggested sulemin he was the only one at the time that made sense.  Then the military decided they'd be willing to make a transition, and they let them do it.  I find it odd, you couldn't find a way to argue with any of my post, yet still continue with the general ignorance about America's perferred position in this.   Cognitive Dissonance, much?  I mean, this could and up being a positive huge change in your countries history.  You'd think you'd want to have an accurate view of it.  I mean, if you were Egypt i'd get it... cause Obama really botched it by reacting too much behind the scenes and sending the wrong person to demand his removal.  However from someone in Canada... it should be pretty eaisly to see the truth.

I mean heck.  The US has been funding "Pro Democracy" groups in Egypt for quite a while now... well before these protests.  They gave money to the regime too... but as part of a trade deal for expedited travel through the Suez and for the peace treaty with Israel.

http://www.thenational.ae/news/worldwide/middle-east/us-gave-material-support-to-pro-democracy-groups-in-egypt-wikileaks

Besides, unlesess the generals plans are to "Start a war with Israel immediatly before putting in a democracy" I don't see how it would really matter who the middle men are.... and if they did that, there would be about zero percent of democracy happening.

actually the US didn't even know there was going to be a revolution they were just playing cath up as everytime they made a stance they were too late, they didn't predict that there was goign to be a revolution which then cause criticism to the CIA. America wanted pwoer to sulieman because he is their partner and israel wanted him too as the wikileaks leaked documents shown. You as a foreign citizen don't understand what mubarak meant when he said in his third speach that he will not listen to america, so instead of putting sulieman in power like he told them he put the army, i am not a politicain but i do know that the army generals don't like the USA intervention in egyptain affairs.

They know have much less control over egypt than what they would have had if sulieman was president or when mubarak was president. That is how you fuck someone over by decreasing their control of a situation.Also egypt isn't going to war with israel anytime soon. america was trying to convince mubarak for a long time to do economic reforms and introduce democracy so the country stays stable and no revolution occurs anyone thinking otherwise isn't thinking deep enough. why the fuck would the USA want to risk a revolution in which the muslim brotherhood could get to power or another power which might risk the stability of the middle east especailly that we as egyptains were callign for years for a change in gass prices that we sell gas to israel for we were selling at a third of the global rpice and egyptains wanted us to sell it at full price but mubarak refused.


Your complete willing ignorance of your own countries affairs is staggerng and sad.  The proof is eaisly laid before you and you ignore it.

The US has been for years, trying to get situations like this to happen and force a transition to democracy.  Which, you know.  I just specifically proved that and you want to ignore it.

Of course the US didn't know this revolution was going to happen.  However, they wanted it to.  They didn't "scramble to make policy" so much as they did, work behind the scenes the majority of the time because they weren't sure of the protestors resolve.

Why you chooes to be so willingly ignorant about your own country, I swear I don't know.  With such ignorance your only likely to repeat the mistakes of your past.

The truth is, i've provided two entire posts of sourced facts which have gone unrebutted, and you've replied with nothing but made up, unsubstantiated claims which I can only assume is spurred by nationalistic pride,  but unfortunitly completely seperated from reality.

It's harsh, but it's true. 



Kasz216 on 15 February 2011
Rath said:
elticker said:
ProdigyBam said:
elticker said:

he is literaly a war hero. he is appreciated by every egyptain as the reason for our success in the yum kippur war. he died a day before mubarak leaving pwoer a huge military parade was organised to honour his service


Lol succses?

You attacked israel out of nothing when they had their biggest holyday, if that is called a succses..


you do know that a country should be prepared in anytime for a war right especailly a state like israel which its existance depends largely on the military, so them not being able to fend off the attack and we destroying the strongest line of defence at that time the bar lev line using water cannons, also sadat didn't listen to elshazly which led to the loss of 250 tanks for no gain and then the encirclment of the third army so yes he was the hero that was never given the role he played. you certainly seem to not have read deeply into the 1973 war, sad how he was jailed by mubarak for 3 years and how sadat fired him from the military. Some of the comments remind me of how america expected israel to completly destroy egypt and syria within 24-72 hours. Underestimating the strength of your opponent is one of the biggest mistakes you can make and such israel was going to use nuclear weapons against us just shows how good our performance was compared with any of the other wars. The thing is though israel would never attack an arab country cause if it did it won't get any help from the US and israel can't survive in an all out war without the US. 

 

It is impressive how well trained the israeli military is but i guess you gotta do what you gotta do to survive and israel without its military it would have dissapeared from the map a long time ago. BTW anyone have any opinoins on who would win in an all out war iran or israel, ignore the use of nuclear weapons in the debate.

Opinions on a war between Israel and Iran? Israel.

Iran may have more troops but the Israeli technology is spectacularly more advanced. They have twice the military budget and a lot of technological backing from the United States which is hugely important.


Heck, Israel could probably hold off the rest of the Middle East by itself considering it's technological advantages.  It's not like anywhere else in the middle east is particularly stable right now.

Iran is facing the same problems the rest of the dictator countries are, they just called for the lives of two pro democracy activists because there was protesting again.

Really it shows the difference when the west can't be involved in these kind of protests and having the dictators ears.


The difference between Egypt and Iran's protests (now and last year) just show the complete futility and actual negative aspects of sanctions and trade embargos.



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SamuelRSmith on 15 February 2011
elticker said:


yeah if we rise as a nation all the arab world rises, if we fall like we have been for decades all arab nations fall. We depend greatly on america which is bad, if we get a proper president and ministry we won't need to depend on them as much, if we don't need o depend on them our influence on the world increases as we have the suez canal, and arab countries should follow our course of action if we become good. take a look at iraq now its fucked up though it has one of the largest if not the largest reserves of oil in the world, Saddam was stupid to attack kuwait and give america a reason to start a war with it especailly that the whole arab world was against iraq.


Nahh... we (the UK), have been at the US's bossom for many-a decade, it's cozy and the milk is rather nutritious.



Kasz216 on 16 February 2011

The reason is by the way... ever since about the end of the Cold War... the major prevailing theme of logic in the US is a modified "Democratic Theory." mixed with the "Golden Arches" theory.

That is two, Modern Demcoracies will never go to war due to economics.

There have been the a few execeptions, but almost always with countries who's democracies aren't "full democracies".

Like Pakistan.



Kasz216 on 16 February 2011
SamuelRSmith said:
elticker said:


yeah if we rise as a nation all the arab world rises, if we fall like we have been for decades all arab nations fall. We depend greatly on america which is bad, if we get a proper president and ministry we won't need to depend on them as much, if we don't need o depend on them our influence on the world increases as we have the suez canal, and arab countries should follow our course of action if we become good. take a look at iraq now its fucked up though it has one of the largest if not the largest reserves of oil in the world, Saddam was stupid to attack kuwait and give america a reason to start a war with it especailly that the whole arab world was against iraq.


Nahh... we (the UK), have been at the US's bossom for many-a decade, it's cozy and the milk is rather nutritious.

Also, I wouldn't say Iraq is doing so bad for itself right now in comparrison.  Iraq is a real success story actually.  It went rougher then it should of been.  However, Iraq's doing great...

and it's biggest buisness partner when it comes to that Oil?

China.  Blood for Oil my ass.

The Truth is... Bush actually seems like he was as simple as "I wanted to invade countries to found democracies."  And of course, just like someone who says "I want to watch all the top 100 movies ever" he started with the ones most interesting to him.



elticker on 16 February 2011
Kasz216 said:
elticker said:
Kasz216 said:
elticker said:
Joelcool7 said:
elticker said:
 


oh yah did you see the video of the car of the US embassy running down protesters,

As Kaz said it was stolen. But even if it wasn't did you see the video's of Egyptian protestors attacking pretty much anyone foreign? CTV, CBC, Fox, CNN all were reporting that their journalists were being attacked by Egyptian protestors. A group of Canadian journalists were pulled from their cars and the translator said the egyptians planned on killing them, luckily the army intervened and rescued them.

Canada, the US and other countries only supported the Egyptian Government all these years because they were the Government. You say Egyptian's don't like the US playing around with your countries affairs, as such what did you expect them to do? Come into Egypt topple the Government and insert democracy? Wouldn't that have been meddaling in your affairs? Or should the US have boycott your Government and sanctioned the shit out of it?

The US Canada and other governments respected Egypts soveirnty and did not meddle in your countries affairs anymore then any other country. Sure they signed peace agreements and trade but they always respected your countries independance.

Egyptians would be just as mad if America meddled and intervened militarily to instal democracy. The US and Canada helped get Mubarak to step down. They have done everything they could for the egyptian people.

 

P.S- which University in Canada you going too?

actually mubaraks fucked the US. They ordered him ot step down and give power to sulieman on thursday, he instead gave it to the army on thursday but his son edited the clip so that he didn't resign and give power to sulieman. that was on thursday, the next day sulieman read the speach which gave power to the army and both army generals in control, al musheer tantawy and al fariq anan don't like israel as they have fought against them in the 1973 war. 

Waw what accusation you give us, these were the secret police who were attacking reporters, let me ask you a question if it was us the people attacking news reporters then why wasn't the american embassy destroyed or israeli embassy for this matter, why wheren't protesters burning israeli and american flags, why weren't we holding anti american signs? give me a reason for why we didn't do that and would attack news reporters.

im applied for U of T for biological science along with western ontario, algoma for computer science and waterloo for mechanical. 


How did that "fuck the US."  They wanted him to give the power to someone else and transition to democracy.  He did that.  When they suggested sulemin he was the only one at the time that made sense.  Then the military decided they'd be willing to make a transition, and they let them do it.  I find it odd, you couldn't find a way to argue with any of my post, yet still continue with the general ignorance about America's perferred position in this.   Cognitive Dissonance, much?  I mean, this could and up being a positive huge change in your countries history.  You'd think you'd want to have an accurate view of it.  I mean, if you were Egypt i'd get it... cause Obama really botched it by reacting too much behind the scenes and sending the wrong person to demand his removal.  However from someone in Canada... it should be pretty eaisly to see the truth.

I mean heck.  The US has been funding "Pro Democracy" groups in Egypt for quite a while now... well before these protests.  They gave money to the regime too... but as part of a trade deal for expedited travel through the Suez and for the peace treaty with Israel.

http://www.thenational.ae/news/worldwide/middle-east/us-gave-material-support-to-pro-democracy-groups-in-egypt-wikileaks

Besides, unlesess the generals plans are to "Start a war with Israel immediatly before putting in a democracy" I don't see how it would really matter who the middle men are.... and if they did that, there would be about zero percent of democracy happening.

actually the US didn't even know there was going to be a revolution they were just playing cath up as everytime they made a stance they were too late, they didn't predict that there was goign to be a revolution which then cause criticism to the CIA. America wanted pwoer to sulieman because he is their partner and israel wanted him too as the wikileaks leaked documents shown. You as a foreign citizen don't understand what mubarak meant when he said in his third speach that he will not listen to america, so instead of putting sulieman in power like he told them he put the army, i am not a politicain but i do know that the army generals don't like the USA intervention in egyptain affairs.

They know have much less control over egypt than what they would have had if sulieman was president or when mubarak was president. That is how you fuck someone over by decreasing their control of a situation.Also egypt isn't going to war with israel anytime soon. america was trying to convince mubarak for a long time to do economic reforms and introduce democracy so the country stays stable and no revolution occurs anyone thinking otherwise isn't thinking deep enough. why the fuck would the USA want to risk a revolution in which the muslim brotherhood could get to power or another power which might risk the stability of the middle east especailly that we as egyptains were callign for years for a change in gass prices that we sell gas to israel for we were selling at a third of the global rpice and egyptains wanted us to sell it at full price but mubarak refused.


Your complete willing ignorance of your own countries affairs is staggerng and sad.  The proof is eaisly laid before you and you ignore it.

The US has been for years, trying to get situations like this to happen and force a transition to democracy.  Which, you know.  I just specifically proved that and you want to ignore it.

Of course the US didn't know this revolution was going to happen.  However, they wanted it to.  They didn't "scramble to make policy" so much as they did, work behind the scenes the majority of the time because they weren't sure of the protestors resolve.

Why you chooes to be so willingly ignorant about your own country, I swear I don't know.  With such ignorance your only likely to repeat the mistakes of your past.

The truth is, i've provided two entire posts of sourced facts which have gone unrebutted, and you've replied with nothing but made up, unsubstantiated claims which I can only assume is spurred by nationalistic pride,  but unfortunitly completely seperated from reality.

It's harsh, but it's true. 

forget it i am done arguing with you cause you don't think politics, you think from a user end not controller end. No country wants a stable country which is allied and depends on it to change to a democratic country which might oppose it. You think mubarak could have stayed in power without huge US and israel backing then i am not even going to reply cause if the US wanted mubarak down they could have cut aid and stopped backing mubarak. You know what the US said when the protests started before the revolution, they said there has to be economic reforms, they didn't say egypt has to turn to democracy. Not replying if you qoute cause i am sick of trying to get a point to you but you obviosly didn't read alot about politics, so i can't argue with someone who doesn't know how politics work.



 

 

elticker on 16 February 2011
Kasz216 said:
SamuelRSmith said:
elticker said:


yeah if we rise as a nation all the arab world rises, if we fall like we have been for decades all arab nations fall. We depend greatly on america which is bad, if we get a proper president and ministry we won't need to depend on them as much, if we don't need o depend on them our influence on the world increases as we have the suez canal, and arab countries should follow our course of action if we become good. take a look at iraq now its fucked up though it has one of the largest if not the largest reserves of oil in the world, Saddam was stupid to attack kuwait and give america a reason to start a war with it especailly that the whole arab world was against iraq.


Nahh... we (the UK), have been at the US's bossom for many-a decade, it's cozy and the milk is rather nutritious.

Also, I wouldn't say Iraq is doing so bad for itself right now in comparrison.  Iraq is a real success story actually.  It went rougher then it should of been.  However, Iraq's doing great...

and it's biggest buisness partner when it comes to that Oil?

China.  Blood for Oil my ass.

The Truth is... Bush actually seems like he was as simple as "I wanted to invade countries to found democracies."  And of course, just like someone who says "I want to watch all the top 100 movies ever" he started with the ones most interesting to him.

its doing bad, over a million civilains dead, they are poor because of corruption, fixed elections even though iraq has one of the biggest oil reserves in the world, so yes they are doing quite poor, by the way you can't force democracy then its not a democracy people should want democracy. The whole reason for the invasion of iraq is oil and any politic would tell you that. Iraq didn't have nukes and weren't even close, even though US reported that iraq had nukes.