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Forums - General - Civil Liberty wins in the USA - Patroit Act extention fails!

ssj12 said:
Kasz216 said:
ssj12 said:
Kasz216 said:

Er... hate to burst your bubble.

They're just going to bring it back up under the same loophole that the Democrats used to pass healthcare where they will just need a "regular" majority.

I got excited when I saw it too, until I realized that.


we will have to see. the republicans wanted it to be a 2/3s vote just to show that all their republicans support the measure. since that failed they might be sulking currently. while I hate the tea-party as all they are is  neo-conservatives trying to paint a different light on the same thing, at least the support a smaller gov and less restrictions for the american people.

also, even if this passed, wouldn't it have to go to the senate? it wouldn't get past the senate at all I believe.

You can't be a neo-conservative if you support a smaller government and less restrictions.

As for the Senate... dunno.  The democrats are split in the senate, some supporting Harry Reid, and others supporting Obama... and you've got to keep in mind, this shit kept getting extended under the democrats anwyay.  With some of the worst parts of it "FIZA" being put into other bills and "protected".

idk, Bush was a neo-conservative and grew the government's power and size.

And true, but those will eventually be removed.. or expire.


Exactly.  That's the defining characteristic of a Neo Conservative.

A Neo Conservative is a regular Conservative who is for an increase in government.

The Tea Party are more "Traditional Conservatives".



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ssj12 said:
Kasz216 said:
ssj12 said:
Kasz216 said:

Er... hate to burst your bubble.

They're just going to bring it back up under the same loophole that the Democrats used to pass healthcare where they will just need a "regular" majority.

I got excited when I saw it too, until I realized that.


we will have to see. the republicans wanted it to be a 2/3s vote just to show that all their republicans support the measure. since that failed they might be sulking currently. while I hate the tea-party as all they are is  neo-conservatives trying to paint a different light on the same thing, at least the support a smaller gov and less restrictions for the american people.

also, even if this passed, wouldn't it have to go to the senate? it wouldn't get past the senate at all I believe.

You can't be a neo-conservative if you support a smaller government and less restrictions.

As for the Senate... dunno.  The democrats are split in the senate, some supporting Harry Reid, and others supporting Obama... and you've got to keep in mind, this shit kept getting extended under the democrats anwyay.  With some of the worst parts of it "FIZA" being put into other bills and "protected".

idk, Bush was a neo-conservative and grew the government's power and size.

And true, but those will eventually be removed.. or expire.

Exactly. He was not a tea-partier, conservative, or anything of the ilk. The tea party is the result of Bush and Obama's excess with government spending.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Kasz216 said:
ssj12 said:
Kasz216 said:
ssj12 said:
Kasz216 said:

Er... hate to burst your bubble.

They're just going to bring it back up under the same loophole that the Democrats used to pass healthcare where they will just need a "regular" majority.

I got excited when I saw it too, until I realized that.


we will have to see. the republicans wanted it to be a 2/3s vote just to show that all their republicans support the measure. since that failed they might be sulking currently. while I hate the tea-party as all they are is  neo-conservatives trying to paint a different light on the same thing, at least the support a smaller gov and less restrictions for the american people.

also, even if this passed, wouldn't it have to go to the senate? it wouldn't get past the senate at all I believe.

You can't be a neo-conservative if you support a smaller government and less restrictions.

As for the Senate... dunno.  The democrats are split in the senate, some supporting Harry Reid, and others supporting Obama... and you've got to keep in mind, this shit kept getting extended under the democrats anwyay.  With some of the worst parts of it "FIZA" being put into other bills and "protected".

idk, Bush was a neo-conservative and grew the government's power and size.

And true, but those will eventually be removed.. or expire.


Exactly.  That's the defining characteristic of a Neo Conservative.

A Neo Conservative is a regular Conservative who is for an increase in government.

The Tea Party are more "Traditional Conservatives".


I wouldn't doubt that a lot of the politicians that are joining the tea party because of its strength are neo-conservatives. Palin really doesn't seem to be any bit of a traditional conservative.



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I always find it amazing how conservatives promote small government and then so badly want stronger surveillance programs.  I guess military, domestic spying, prisons, etc. don't count as "government."



"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."  --Hermann Goering, leading Nazi party member, at the Nuremberg War Crime Trials 

 

Conservatives:  Pushing for a small enough government to be a guest in your living room, or even better - your uterus.

 

apparently the republicans called for a revote....



PC gaming is better than console gaming. Always.     We are Anonymous, We are Legion    Kick-ass interview   Great Flash Series Here    Anime Ratings     Make and Play Please
Amazing discussion about being wrong
Official VGChartz Folding@Home Team #109453
 
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FinalEvangelion said:

I always find it amazing how conservatives promote small government and then so badly want stronger surveillance programs.  I guess military, domestic spying, prisons, etc. don't count as "government."


Well, the theory goes "Government should be small because we should only be involved in the few things the Government should be doing."


The Military and Domestic spying (Defense) do count as government, but as the small part of the government that a Democracy is supposed to provide for it's people.  It just doesn't count as "Bad government" aka government actions we shouldn't be doing.

It's a fully coherent viewpoint whether anyone else agrees with it or not.



ssj12 said:
Kasz216 said:
ssj12 said:
Kasz216 said:
ssj12 said:
Kasz216 said:

Er... hate to burst your bubble.

They're just going to bring it back up under the same loophole that the Democrats used to pass healthcare where they will just need a "regular" majority.

I got excited when I saw it too, until I realized that.


we will have to see. the republicans wanted it to be a 2/3s vote just to show that all their republicans support the measure. since that failed they might be sulking currently. while I hate the tea-party as all they are is  neo-conservatives trying to paint a different light on the same thing, at least the support a smaller gov and less restrictions for the american people.

also, even if this passed, wouldn't it have to go to the senate? it wouldn't get past the senate at all I believe.

You can't be a neo-conservative if you support a smaller government and less restrictions.

As for the Senate... dunno.  The democrats are split in the senate, some supporting Harry Reid, and others supporting Obama... and you've got to keep in mind, this shit kept getting extended under the democrats anwyay.  With some of the worst parts of it "FIZA" being put into other bills and "protected".

idk, Bush was a neo-conservative and grew the government's power and size.

And true, but those will eventually be removed.. or expire.


Exactly.  That's the defining characteristic of a Neo Conservative.

A Neo Conservative is a regular Conservative who is for an increase in government.

The Tea Party are more "Traditional Conservatives".


I wouldn't doubt that a lot of the politicians that are joining the tea party because of its strength are neo-conservatives. Palin really doesn't seem to be any bit of a traditional conservative.

Doesn't really matter when you've got local officials tallying your votes and ready and willing to kick you out the minute you deviate from what you promised.



The problem with size are the categories that come with a larger size.

Team party original agenda could be described as Libertarian where it dealt with emphasis on the bill of rights. The problem with Tea Partiers is that the ideal of restoring the founding values translates to the majority as racism, slavery and so on. Of course anyone who is familiar with the Bill of Rights would see the ignorance in that kind of thought but that is the case.

The second issue is that restoration of the founding values go so strongly against the Liberal Democratic agenda that Tea Partiers seem to have more in common with Republican Conservatives.

It would be more accurate to call them Tea-Partiers but in reality they are (or originally were) Libertarians. (Not to be confused with Liberals)

I also use were because I haven't been keeping up with them what with Tunisia, Egypt, Russia, North Korea and so on going on =/



I'm Unamerica and you can too.

The Official Huge Monster Hunter Thread: 



The Hunt Begins 4/20/2010 =D

Just because they say its over, doesn't mean they'll stop doing it...



Garnett said:

Just because they say its over, doesn't mean they'll stop doing it...


Does mean that there are consequences for breaking the law though.

The point was the statue was unconstitutional to begin with, in other words if they did continue to monitor folks by the ascribed methods of the patriot act they would put a lot in jeapordy.



I'm Unamerica and you can too.

The Official Huge Monster Hunter Thread: 



The Hunt Begins 4/20/2010 =D