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Forums - Sony - Won't the NGP cost too much?

Crazymann on 04 February 2011
kitler53 said:

A) just because you have power doesn't mean you have to use it.  3D dot game hero is a great example of a game for the ps3 developed with a low budget so that only a 100 thousand or so is profitable for them

B) apparently it is easy to port back and forth between ps3 and npg, and then npg and android.  i know lots of people like to look at single platform sales but that doesn't mean anything to a publisher. 

C) wii level of graphics look bad to me -- develop all the games you want for that but i'm not interested.

It must be sad to be so constricted by graphics... so consumed by the need for eye candy that you would discard potentially great experiences untouched.

I routinely play old games on my NES, SNES and Genesis and find them to be just as fun now as ever (perhaps moreso).  And, if you would say that those are 2D and they age better, I also recently replayed (and beat) MGS on the PS1.

Thank goodness that your attitude is not the prevailing one.



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psrock on 04 February 2011

"NGP is a developer's dream – Sony is finally doing the things developers have been crying out for for years.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-02-04-new-ngp-details-emerge-at-private-event

 

Someone can make a thread out this. 



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11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
Zlejedi on 04 February 2011
Crazymann said:
kitler53 said:

A) just because you have power doesn't mean you have to use it.  3D dot game hero is a great example of a game for the ps3 developed with a low budget so that only a 100 thousand or so is profitable for them

B) apparently it is easy to port back and forth between ps3 and npg, and then npg and android.  i know lots of people like to look at single platform sales but that doesn't mean anything to a publisher. 

C) wii level of graphics look bad to me -- develop all the games you want for that but i'm not interested.

It must be sad to be so constricted by graphics... so consumed by the need for eye candy that you would discard potentially great experiences untouched.

I routinely play old games on my NES, SNES and Genesis and find them to be just as fun now as ever (perhaps moreso).  And, if you would say that those are 2D and they age better, I also recently replayed (and beat) MGS on the PS1.

Thank goodness that your attitude is not the prevailing one.

I don't know why but my tolerance for bad graphics is much higher for 5-10 euro PS1 classics/PS2 second hand copies played on a 150 euro psp/70 euro ps2 (second hand) than in case of 40-50 euro games for 225-250 euro Wii/3DS.

Suprising isn't it ?



PROUD MEMBER OF THE PSP RPG FAN CLUB

IMU1808 on 04 February 2011
Zlejedi said:
Joelcool7 said:

True- the dev costs of the NGP is to expensive for smaller publishers and developers. The 3DS is a portable GameCube essentially with 3D. This is attractive to developers who can't afford to develop on NGP. Now Sony fans can argue all they want that NGP is cheap to develop for but nobody can argue it will be cheaper or as cheap as 3DS.

It's speculation at this point of time. In the end it might be that building new game from the ground for 3DS will be cheaper than for NGP but making multiplatform PS3/NGP title will be lot more profitable and I could see a lot of japanise devs going that way for jRPG.

It's not even speculation. When this thing was announced, all we've been hearing is that it's very easy to develop for. Comments like Uncharted's engine being ported in like 3 weeks sounds like speculation of difficult development? If developers want to break their backs creating top level PS3 resources for a portable device, they have no one to blame but them selves but the option to do something decent on the NGP that wont cost you an arm and a leg is clearly there.



Chibi.V.29 on 04 February 2011
Joelcool7 said:

This both true and false and I'm sure many Sony fans will be quick to trumpet the false.

False- the NGP is as powerful as PS3. However also of companies will port games from the PS3, 360 to the NGP. Developers say it only takes weeks to port, so we can be sure developers will port tons of games. Note that right now almost every major publisher is publishing on PS3/360 so their are plenty of publishers who will port titles. Also many publishers can afford 10-million dollar projects these days meaning many will develop games for the NGP.

True- the dev costs of the NGP is to expensive for smaller publishers and developers. The 3DS is a portable GameCube essentially with 3D. This is attractive to developers who can't afford to develop on NGP. Now Sony fans can argue all they want that NGP is cheap to develop for but nobody can argue it will be cheaper or as cheap as 3DS.

In the end their will be alot more smaller publisher/Developer support for 3DS. Also titles that developers or publishers aren't so sure about (new IP's) will likely be brought to 3DS first as it costs less and they can test the field. But as Epic pointed out the cost factor won't deter many if any of the bigger publishers.

thats not true atall. once of the biggest attractions of the NGP is that its a cross platform with the ps3 et6c. so if a smaller developer made a PSN game they could very cheaply bring it to the NGP psn. same as if they made it a physical full length game they can get to both. Also the ps3 and xbox cost alot more to develop for than the wii and yet many of the new ip's have ended up being on it ^^

From what i could read in a thread i was in about the NGP developing tools etc all the developers at the sony meating in the UK  (20 devs) had said that the NGP was every developers dream.



Yeah i know my spelling sucks but im dysgraphic so live with it :3    

---------------------------------------------------Bets--------------------------------------------------

Conegamer - I say that the PS3 will beat the DS next week in Japan  (for hardware sales) Forfeit is control over others avatar for 1 week.

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Crazymann on 04 February 2011
Zlejedi said:
Crazymann said:
kitler53 said:

A) just because you have power doesn't mean you have to use it.  3D dot game hero is a great example of a game for the ps3 developed with a low budget so that only a 100 thousand or so is profitable for them

B) apparently it is easy to port back and forth between ps3 and npg, and then npg and android.  i know lots of people like to look at single platform sales but that doesn't mean anything to a publisher. 

C) wii level of graphics look bad to me -- develop all the games you want for that but i'm not interested.

It must be sad to be so constricted by graphics... so consumed by the need for eye candy that you would discard potentially great experiences untouched.

I routinely play old games on my NES, SNES and Genesis and find them to be just as fun now as ever (perhaps moreso).  And, if you would say that those are 2D and they age better, I also recently replayed (and beat) MGS on the PS1.

Thank goodness that your attitude is not the prevailing one.

I don't know why but my tolerance for bad graphics is much higher for 5-10 euro PS1 classics/PS2 second hand copies played on a 150 euro psp/70 euro ps2 (second hand) than in case of 40-50 euro games for 225-250 euro Wii/3DS.

Suprising isn't it ?

Nice attempt at witicism, but cost was never brought up in this arguement, so this is nothing but a red herring (look it up).  I could just as easily say...

"I don't know why but my tolerance for boring, barely evolutionary upgrades on the same games I've played for years on older systems is much higher for 5-10 euro PS1 classics/PS2 second hand copies played on a 150 euro psp/70 euro ps2 (second hand) or 40-50 euro games for 225-250 euro Wii/3DS than in the case of 60-80 euro games on a PS3."

That statement would be equally pointless, as this was a discussion of graphic fidelity and perception of quality.  So I'm gonna have to ask you to try again, and do better next time.

Surprising isn't it?



HappySqurriel on 04 February 2011

It really depends on the developers ...

If you were to develop the same game for the NGP and the 3DS, the NGP would probably see between 50% and 300% higher development costs; primarily depending on the kind of game you're developing. With many "classic" handheld games, like puzzle games and 2D arcade games, there is some work associated with making higher quality graphics but it is not that dramatic; but (at the same time) if you're developing a big budget blockbuster similar to what you see on the HD consoles, the amount of work required to make the greater quantity of higher quality graphical assets could push the NGP version to be 4 times (or possibly greater) than a similar 3DS version.



Crazymann on 04 February 2011
Chibi.V.29 said:
Joelcool7 said:

This both true and false and I'm sure many Sony fans will be quick to trumpet the false.

False- the NGP is as powerful as PS3. However also of companies will port games from the PS3, 360 to the NGP. Developers say it only takes weeks to port, so we can be sure developers will port tons of games. Note that right now almost every major publisher is publishing on PS3/360 so their are plenty of publishers who will port titles. Also many publishers can afford 10-million dollar projects these days meaning many will develop games for the NGP.

True- the dev costs of the NGP is to expensive for smaller publishers and developers. The 3DS is a portable GameCube essentially with 3D. This is attractive to developers who can't afford to develop on NGP. Now Sony fans can argue all they want that NGP is cheap to develop for but nobody can argue it will be cheaper or as cheap as 3DS.

In the end their will be alot more smaller publisher/Developer support for 3DS. Also titles that developers or publishers aren't so sure about (new IP's) will likely be brought to 3DS first as it costs less and they can test the field. But as Epic pointed out the cost factor won't deter many if any of the bigger publishers.

thats not true atall. once of the biggest attractions of the NGP is that its a cross platform with the ps3 et6c. so if a smaller developer made a PSN game they could very cheaply bring it to the NGP psn. same as if they made it a physical full length game they can get to both. Also the ps3 and xbox cost alot more to develop for than the wii and yet many of the new ip's have ended up being on it ^^

From what i could read in a thread i wa sin about the NGP developing tools etc all the developers at the sony meating in the UK  (20 devs) had said that the NGP was every developers dream.

This is correct.  There are just people who want NGP to fail.  I intend to have both, so I don't care.  However, I do think that there needs to be differentiation between NGP and PS3 or it will fail.  Just porting won't do.  However, Sony is already addressing that (as said in that very article).  This is all very exciting.  BOTH systems will be worth having.



Chibi.V.29 on 04 February 2011
Crazymann said:
Chibi.V.29 said:
Joelcool7 said:

This both true and false and I'm sure many Sony fans will be quick to trumpet the false.

False- the NGP is as powerful as PS3. However also of companies will port games from the PS3, 360 to the NGP. Developers say it only takes weeks to port, so we can be sure developers will port tons of games. Note that right now almost every major publisher is publishing on PS3/360 so their are plenty of publishers who will port titles. Also many publishers can afford 10-million dollar projects these days meaning many will develop games for the NGP.

True- the dev costs of the NGP is to expensive for smaller publishers and developers. The 3DS is a portable GameCube essentially with 3D. This is attractive to developers who can't afford to develop on NGP. Now Sony fans can argue all they want that NGP is cheap to develop for but nobody can argue it will be cheaper or as cheap as 3DS.

In the end their will be alot more smaller publisher/Developer support for 3DS. Also titles that developers or publishers aren't so sure about (new IP's) will likely be brought to 3DS first as it costs less and they can test the field. But as Epic pointed out the cost factor won't deter many if any of the bigger publishers.

thats not true atall. once of the biggest attractions of the NGP is that its a cross platform with the ps3 et6c. so if a smaller developer made a PSN game they could very cheaply bring it to the NGP psn. same as if they made it a physical full length game they can get to both. Also the ps3 and xbox cost alot more to develop for than the wii and yet many of the new ip's have ended up being on it ^^

From what i could read in a thread i wa sin about the NGP developing tools etc all the developers at the sony meating in the UK  (20 devs) had said that the NGP was every developers dream.

This is correct.  There are just people who want NGP to fail.  I intend to have both, so I don't care.  However, I do think that there needs to be differentiation between NGP and PS3 or it will fail.  Just porting won't do.  However, Sony is already addressing that (as said in that very article).  This is all very exciting.  BOTH systems will be worth having.

Yeah i dont understand why people want either to fail. Why cant people just hope they both do well. That would be alot better for everyone overall ^^



Yeah i know my spelling sucks but im dysgraphic so live with it :3    

---------------------------------------------------Bets--------------------------------------------------

Conegamer - I say that the PS3 will beat the DS next week in Japan  (for hardware sales) Forfeit is control over others avatar for 1 week.

Zlejedi on 04 February 2011
Crazymann said:
Zlejedi said:
Crazymann said:
kitler53 said:

A) just because you have power doesn't mean you have to use it.  3D dot game hero is a great example of a game for the ps3 developed with a low budget so that only a 100 thousand or so is profitable for them

B) apparently it is easy to port back and forth between ps3 and npg, and then npg and android.  i know lots of people like to look at single platform sales but that doesn't mean anything to a publisher. 

C) wii level of graphics look bad to me -- develop all the games you want for that but i'm not interested.

It must be sad to be so constricted by graphics... so consumed by the need for eye candy that you would discard potentially great experiences untouched.

I routinely play old games on my NES, SNES and Genesis and find them to be just as fun now as ever (perhaps moreso).  And, if you would say that those are 2D and they age better, I also recently replayed (and beat) MGS on the PS1.

Thank goodness that your attitude is not the prevailing one.

I don't know why but my tolerance for bad graphics is much higher for 5-10 euro PS1 classics/PS2 second hand copies played on a 150 euro psp/70 euro ps2 (second hand) than in case of 40-50 euro games for 225-250 euro Wii/3DS.

Suprising isn't it ?

Nice attempt at witicism, but cost was never brought up in this arguement, so this is nothing but a red herring (look it up).  I could just as easily say...

"I don't know why but my tolerance for boring, barely evolutionary upgrades on the same games I've played for years on older systems is much higher for 5-10 euro PS1 classics/PS2 second hand copies played on a 150 euro psp/70 euro ps2 (second hand) or 40-50 euro games for 225-250 euro Wii/3DS than in the case of 60-80 euro games on a PS3."

That statement would be equally pointless, as this was a discussion of graphic fidelity.  So I'm gonna have to ask you to try again, and do better next time/

Surprising isn't it?

Your argument could almost be belived if half of the best sellers on Wii/DS weren't slightly upgraded versions of nintendo classics.



PROUD MEMBER OF THE PSP RPG FAN CLUB