Just to start a flame war, or even worse a rational discussion, I posit this that I was thinking of today. The cognitive dissonance that exists in many religions between love and joy and peace, and apocalyptic terror and damnation. It seems like in this modern era, an information age that exists after genocides and wars have been well documented and preserved, that it seems unconscionable that a person could smile and shake your hand and be friendly and hold the belief that a deity will soon destroy you in a massive war on humanity and that this is a good thing. But millions do it.

This is a ten minute excerpt (only the first few are relevant) from a talk given a few years ago in front of thousands of what we would normally consider a good natured friendly religious group, the Jehovah's Witnesses. If you work with them, or they knock on your door you know that they are friendly ordinary people. I know, I was one years ago. But listen to this talk, a talk where a friendly grown man talks about how god will soon kill the gays, and murder billions, and that there will be so many corpses that all the wild animals will not be able to eat them, and jokes about it, and at points you can hear the audience laugh along with him. There is something haunting and disturbing about this. He then goes on to all sorts of stupidity about pangea and god renaming the days of the week, whatever.

Edit: I feel the need to point out that there is some gruesome imagery in this clip. The talk is juxtaposed with pictures from actual wars, and contrasted with illustration from some of the books they publish. You have been warned.

Now here's the thing, anybody in their right mind would find that horrific, and unequivocally bad. And any good religious person would say they don't want (whatever specific horror that particular sect of that particular god) to happen to you. But they would still contend that it's a positive thing, and it needs to happen. How is this mentally reconcilable in todays modern world? That the only possible thing that an all powerful, wise and loving deity can come up with to solve the world's problems is something horrific that only the worlds worst dictators have ever attempted?

I think this is why catholics and various other christian denominations did away with the concept of hellfire, and changed it to "a seperation from god", but millions of people still believe in some literal horrific punishment meded out by a god. How can this dichotomy be possible and still render a functioning adult?

I can't help but try to give this topic one more shot. It's been over a month and this got glossed over, if it falls again, I will let it die.

Before I post I wish I could give your thread a little more time but I'm on the run and probably won’t be at a computer for a few days.

The answer is to your question and I'm sorry if it's a thread ender is vindication.

There was a great a quote I believe from George Orwell on a group of devotees walking through heaven.

The devotees saw some Buddhists swimming in a pool and they saw Muslims with their virgins in the next area and in another area they saw a giant wall, one observer asked their guide what was on the other side and the guide responds.

"Shh, the Baptists, they think they're the only ones here."

The point of scriptural end days is as simple as an ultimate pat on the back, reminding you that even though you get older that even though you may die before end days that those who see end days will have it worse and worse yet those who do not meet the requirements of the god will meet whatever ends have been spoken on them.

Take care, I will try to get on a computer tomorrow or Sunday to respond if needed.

VagaBond I know you are anti-religion but you are indicating all faiths as being the way some Jehovah's Witnesses are. Jehovah's Witnesses have a totally different belief system then modern Christian's. Much like Mormon's do. Or how about Muslims they believe something totally different as well.

The Bible in Revelations talks of the Beast taking over the world and that the people of the earth will choose to follow him. Taking a mark on their forheads or their wrists. These people will then make war on God and he will unleash disaster and wrath upon them.

Imagine you were God and you created the earth. Some people loved you and then your arch enemy the devil comes in and starts whipping them out, the people you created then side with the devil and decide to fight you. Would you just say oh well and step down from power and give the devil control? Hell no you would unleash hell on those people and fight back.

Fact is yes the apocolype is coming, but its not like its going to be unprovoked and that God is just going to unleash hell on innocent people. Everyone has a choice whether to follow God or in the end times follow the Beast (Anti-Christ) unfortunetly the Christians and believers who don't take the mark will be persecuted and probably wiped out, while those who do take the mark and side with the devil will face the wrath of God.

Its complex, however a loving God doesn't mean that he will put up with everything we do. He is God why should his creations dictate how he runs things?

P.S- its sort of annoying that so many threads like this get created (Flame bait) with the sole intention of getting the religious people to come in and defend their faiths just so that you can assualt them with your own beliefs and belittle their faith. Such a thread should be closed as it is purposely targetting people of specific faiths with the intent of flaming them.

@Joel. The casting of the devil as some arch-enemy of God seems contrary to the bible. The way I read it in the bible satan is actually essentially just another servant of God who's job it is to challenge God and to punish the wicked. The Book of Job shows this relationship quite well.

It certainly doesn't make sense for an omni-potent diety to actually have an arch-enemy.

It also says in Genesis that Lucifer was an angel who decided he would be a better God then God himself. he rose up with some other angel's and tried to over throw God so to speak. So God created hell where he sent the devil for all eternity and as such those who don't believe in him are sent their.

However you are also right to a degree the devil is allowed to test men. He plays a role none the less. However he and God are definatly not buddy buddy.