Late 2011, well that's good.

I'll have enough time to play GT5 for most of 2011 and then at the end pick up Forza 4 and play until the next Forza or Gran Turismo comes out.

Oh and haters stop hating =p.

6 years.....84 on metacritic based on 60 reviews.......800 ps2 cars, weird menus, no outer car customization, few online modes, weird shadows and texture quality, etc.'

no crap about it good sir. it is what it is. 

Yeah, but originally planned doesn't count.  It's like saying I originally planned to be a doctor but became a sonographer instead.  Anyways, there is just wayyyy too many articles stating which of the 2 HD consoles is more powerful to make a solid judgement.  Lets just say X360 is a Ferrari, the PS3 is a Lambo, and the Wii is a WRX (a turbocharged version of the plain Impreza) and it really depends on the driver (software developer) what performance they get out of the car.  Honestly, I have not seen anything (including GoW:III which I think is overrated) on the PS3 that surpasses/blows away games on the X360...so yes I refuse to drink the KoolAide yet thank you!

It is what it is indeed.  A lot of my multi-console buds are dissapointed as well and it shows on  the degraded sales.  I'm sure fanboys will spin it but in the end it will end up selling considerably less than GT4 at a higher price tag to Sony!!!

But in the end, it ends up selling considerably more than Forza 3.  It is what it is indeed. *rolleyes*

Quoting the great Steve Stifler. "I can't wait to see this disaster, *lols*".

I am shocked at how many people are oblivious to the fact that Forza 4 is not a Kinect exclusive. Just because Kinect is confirmed to be compatible does not mean it will be Kinect only. They are not idiots! They know that the majority of players would not play the game that way. It doesn`t hurt to have the option for those that wish to though.

That guy doesn`t even try to play it. Joyride was pretty enjoyable to play actually. That guy didn`t move once the entire race and the car never turned other than after hitting stuff. He fails so hard. Kinect will likely only work within certain modes on the game anyway. Not like it will be Kinect only or anything.

A flop isn't determined by its meta. Sales play a role as well, and its sales are far from a flop.

Now, was it unable to meet the hype of most reviewers? You could say that. But a "FLOP"? Far from one.

And in fact, 84 isn't downright terrible either, even with the criteria you mentioned.

Just don't bother, in the minds of people like this, anybody who disagrees = automatic fanboy. There's just no room for logical discussion, and his history shows this.