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Forums - General - Should the unemployed kill themselves to enable lower taxes?

binary solo said:

Funny thing is the capitalist system relies on a minimum level of unemployment to keep wages and inflation down, and hence profits up and prices down. 4% unemployment as about as low as a capitalist system can go without putting significant upward pressure on wages, and with upward pressure on wages is upward pressure on inflation. Inflation is a much more insidious erosion of wealth than taxes, because in general the taxation % remains pretty stable (in stable economic conditions) but inflation continually, irrevocably and inexorably diminishes your purchasing power. And inflation reduces profitability.

People who bleat about taxes haven't got a clue. Its inflation that gets you in the end. It's inflation that means your retirement savings plan is never worth what you think it will be worth. It's inflation that means you can't afford as much stuff this year as you could last year (assuming you've kept your job and same rate of pay). It's inflation that means your power bill keeps going up. All the while taxes remain the same year on year on year. Every extra dollar you earn may only mean another 60c in your pocket after income tax, but next year that 60c will only get you what 57c buys you this year, and the year after that it's only gonna get you 54c worth of stuff.

So killing off the unemployed won't do much to your taxes, but it'll make inflation spiral out of control. That will surely make those who are working and paying a tiny bit less tax poorer in real terms.

Having lived through inflation caused by a labour shortage, and having dealt with inflation caused by reckless government and central bank policies, I will take inflation caused by a labour shortage every day. When you have inflation caused by  a labour shortage your wages will increase at a rate far closer to inflation, and since the value of your currency is not being destroyed, products and services made outside of your region will become more affordable; and (since there is  a labour shortage) you're far more likely to find a job opening for a more "senior" position, and it is easier to increase your standard of living.

When you have a government that kills of private sector jobs though high taxes, moronic regulations and crowding out along with inflation caused by the central bank devaluing money you end up with stagflation. In this environment you're lucky if you can find a job so it is difficult to get a raise that comes close to the rate of inflation, it is difficult to find a job in a more senior position so you can't increase your "pay-grade", and the cost of both foreign and domestic goods are increasing at an alarming rate.

 

 

Now, back to the original topic ...

The unemployed should (obviously) not be killing themselves, but a lot of the unemployed need to reconsider the kinds of jobs they're looking for. Long before you hit the 99 week cut-off (in the United States) you should have started to consider that your choosen career path may not be viable anymore, or the location you're living in might not be the right place for you anymore.





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HappySqurriel said:
binary solo said:

Funny thing is the capitalist system relies on a minimum level of unemployment to keep wages and inflation down, and hence profits up and prices down. 4% unemployment as about as low as a capitalist system can go without putting significant upward pressure on wages, and with upward pressure on wages is upward pressure on inflation. Inflation is a much more insidious erosion of wealth than taxes, because in general the taxation % remains pretty stable (in stable economic conditions) but inflation continually, irrevocably and inexorably diminishes your purchasing power. And inflation reduces profitability.

People who bleat about taxes haven't got a clue. Its inflation that gets you in the end. It's inflation that means your retirement savings plan is never worth what you think it will be worth. It's inflation that means you can't afford as much stuff this year as you could last year (assuming you've kept your job and same rate of pay). It's inflation that means your power bill keeps going up. All the while taxes remain the same year on year on year. Every extra dollar you earn may only mean another 60c in your pocket after income tax, but next year that 60c will only get you what 57c buys you this year, and the year after that it's only gonna get you 54c worth of stuff.

So killing off the unemployed won't do much to your taxes, but it'll make inflation spiral out of control. That will surely make those who are working and paying a tiny bit less tax poorer in real terms.

Having lived through inflation caused by a labour shortage, and having dealt with inflation caused by reckless government and central bank policies, I will take inflation caused by a labour shortage every day. When you have inflation caused by  a labour shortage your wages will increase at a rate far closer to inflation, and since the value of your currency is not being destroyed, products and services made outside of your region will become more affordable; and (since there is  a labour shortage) you're far more likely to find a job opening for a more "senior" position, and it is easier to increase your standard of living.

When you have a government that kills of private sector jobs though high taxes, moronic regulations and crowding out along with inflation caused by the central bank devaluing money you end up with stagflation. In this environment you're lucky if you can find a job so it is difficult to get a raise that comes close to the rate of inflation, it is difficult to find a job in a more senior position so you can't increase your "pay-grade", and the cost of both foreign and domestic goods are increasing at an alarming rate.

 

 

Now, back to the original topic ...

The unemployed should (obviously) not be killing themselves, but a lot of the unemployed need to reconsider the kinds of jobs they're looking for. Long before you hit the 99 week cut-off (in the United States) you should have started to consider that your choosen career path may not be viable anymore, or the location you're living in might not be the right place for you anymore.


How about Inflation caused by reckless government spending and unemployment?

I mean, currently they want to spend more because they don't think our inflation is high enough.



Kasz216 said:

Also I wouldn't call people who make such posts conservatives.

In general, studies show that conservatives donate more time money and blood then liberals.

The only bigger indicator is how religious you are.  Though interesting the actual religion doesn't matter, just that you bleive.

Most likely if someone actually DID mean it it'd be a hybrid extremist.

Most likely someone who beleives in conservative fiscality but was socially liberal and more likely then not an atheist.


Basically a libretarian who was a douchebag... and likely a sociopath.

Something like... 5% of the world is supposed to be sociopaths in some estimations.

Think that's a good part of "proffesional trolling" too.

The internet allows sociopaths to be... well sociopaths and be free of judgement when usually they have to hide their sociopathy and pretend to care about people.

You can find those people in any political group.

Don't know about your studies, but they may simply be limited to the US. I know much more Christians who think X category of people should be killed than atheists (actually I don't know a single atheist who would say something like that) who think that. Not to mention that can't imagine someone who's a social liberal could think that way.

I resent your arguments that atheists are sociopaths, or that they're more likely to be.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

Also I wouldn't call people who make such posts conservatives.

In general, studies show that conservatives donate more time money and blood then liberals.

The only bigger indicator is how religious you are.  Though interesting the actual religion doesn't matter, just that you bleive.

Most likely if someone actually DID mean it it'd be a hybrid extremist.

Most likely someone who beleives in conservative fiscality but was socially liberal and more likely then not an atheist.


Basically a libretarian who was a douchebag... and likely a sociopath.

Something like... 5% of the world is supposed to be sociopaths in some estimations.

Think that's a good part of "proffesional trolling" too.

The internet allows sociopaths to be... well sociopaths and be free of judgement when usually they have to hide their sociopathy and pretend to care about people.

You can find those people in any political group.

Don't know about your studies, but they may simply be limited to the US. I know much more Christians who think X category of people should be killed than atheists (actually I don't know a single atheist who would say something like that) who think that. Not to mention that can't imagine someone who's a social liberal could think that way.

I resent your arguments that atheists are sociopaths, or that they're more likely to be.

Atheists aren't more likely to be sociopaths.

Though Sociopaths are more than likely to be atheists.

Think about it "What benefit does a Sociopath gain from a belief in god?"

A sociopath by nature, is someone who doesn't care about the feelings of others... and greatly disregards the beliefs and rights of others to get his own way.

How would a belief in religion help that?    I know what your thinking

"Some religions show a disregard for different groups, like women."

Except... Sociopaths already don't give a shit about women.  Or anybody.  They don't need a justification because they don't need to justify anything.  All they care about is themselves. 

In fact if anything, the thought of a higher power judging their actions is nothing but detrimental to a sociopath.


A good example is Jeffery Dhamer who's basic explination for why he ate people was "I figured there was no god, so there was no reason not to do the things I wanted to do."

Ignore the dumb "atheists are immoral" beggining

 

 

Some sociopaths find religion useful sure, it's a great way to appear normal...  If you live in the right country you can use it as an excuse for your sociopathic tendencies...  It's also very easy to bilk people out of money thanks to their faith.

You'd be hard pressed to find an actual religious sociopath though... it'd be nothing but a restraint.  I wish more sociopaths were religious.  The thought of an all powerful god making their eternity worse becaues of the douchebag things they do in the short term would be quite advantageous.



Kasz216 said:

Atheists aren't more likely to be sociopaths.

Though Sociopaths are more than likely to be atheists.

Think about it "What benefit does a Sociopath gain from a belief in god?"

A sociopath by nature, is someone who doesn't care about the feelings of others... and greatly disregards the beliefs and rights of others to get his own way.

How would a belief in religion help that?    I know what your thinking

"Some religions show a disregard for different groups, like women."

Except... Sociopaths already don't give a shit about women.  Or anybody.  They don't need a justification because they don't need to justify anything.  All they care about is themselves. 

In fact if anything, the thought of a higher power judging their actions is nothing but detrimental to a sociopath.


A good example is Jeffery Dhamer who's basic explination for why he ate people was "I figured there was no god, so there was no reason not to do the things I wanted to do."

Ignore the dumb "atheists are immoral" beggining

 

Some sociopaths find religion useful sure, it's a great way to appear normal...  If you live in the right country you can use it as an excuse for your sociopathic tendencies...  It's also very easy to bilk people out of money thanks to their faith.

You'd be hard pressed to find an actual religious sociopath though... it'd be nothing but a restraint.  I wish more sociopaths were religious.  The thought of an all powerful god making their eternity worse becaues of the douchebag things they do in the short term would be quite advantageous.

You are mistaken. What about a person who performs wicked acts because he believes that it's his duty (given to him by whatever deity he worships) to do that? (granted, maybe they fall into the category of psychopath)

Religions are all made up, and people end up projecting their personalities on whatever deity they worship. So kind people will be kind (worshipping a kind god) and wicked people will be wicked  (worshipping a wicked god) regardless of whether they're religious or not.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

Atheists aren't more likely to be sociopaths.

Though Sociopaths are more than likely to be atheists.

Think about it "What benefit does a Sociopath gain from a belief in god?"

A sociopath by nature, is someone who doesn't care about the feelings of others... and greatly disregards the beliefs and rights of others to get his own way.

How would a belief in religion help that?    I know what your thinking

"Some religions show a disregard for different groups, like women."

Except... Sociopaths already don't give a shit about women.  Or anybody.  They don't need a justification because they don't need to justify anything.  All they care about is themselves. 

In fact if anything, the thought of a higher power judging their actions is nothing but detrimental to a sociopath.


A good example is Jeffery Dhamer who's basic explination for why he ate people was "I figured there was no god, so there was no reason not to do the things I wanted to do."

Ignore the dumb "atheists are immoral" beggining

 

Some sociopaths find religion useful sure, it's a great way to appear normal...  If you live in the right country you can use it as an excuse for your sociopathic tendencies...  It's also very easy to bilk people out of money thanks to their faith.

You'd be hard pressed to find an actual religious sociopath though... it'd be nothing but a restraint.  I wish more sociopaths were religious.  The thought of an all powerful god making their eternity worse becaues of the douchebag things they do in the short term would be quite advantageous.

You are mistaken. What about a person who performs wicked acts because he believes that it's his duty (given to him by whatever deity he worships) to do that? (granted, maybe they fall into the category of sociopaths)

Religions are all made up, and people end up projecting their personalities on whatever deity they worship. So kind people will be kind (worshipping a kind god) and wicked people will be wicked  (worshipping a wicked god) regardless of whether they're religious or not.

That's not a sociopath.  A sociopath needs no justification for what he does.

You are likely thinking about Psychosis where someone thinks god is telling him to kill.



Kasz216 said:

That's not a sociopath.  A sociopath needs no justification for what he does.

I corrected it. I meant psychopath.

As I said though, religion doesn't shape people (at least not for the better), people shape religion (for better or for worse).



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

That's not a sociopath.  A sociopath needs no justification for what he does.

I corrected it. I meant psychopath.

Which... has to do with what exactly?

Pyschopaths and Sociopaths are completely different.

I mean for example... your visionary serial killer is more likely to be religious.  Believing the voices in his head are god or a demon because it's the easiest explination.   With variations like "Man from the future" "CIA" etc being other choices.

 

Mission based serial killers like the ones you mentioned I don't believe are any more likely to be religious percentage wise.  See like the unibomber and people who kill prostitutes for an example.



Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

That's not a sociopath.  A sociopath needs no justification for what he does.

I corrected it. I meant psychopath.

Which... has to do with what exactly?

Pyschopaths and Sociopaths are completely different.

Yeah. I agree. It was bad example. But I can assure you that the ideea that th people who made those comments are atheist sociopaths is simply unfounded. Just go to any Romanian news site, and whenever there's an article abouht gypsies or gays you'll see people making comments just like the ones Richard got. And the people making those comments are not atheist sociopaths (espoecially considering how few atheists live here, but also the fact that they also cite religios reasons for why they should be killed - mostly in the case of gays).



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

That's not a sociopath.  A sociopath needs no justification for what he does.

I corrected it. I meant psychopath.

Which... has to do with what exactly?

Pyschopaths and Sociopaths are completely different.

Yeah. I agree. It was bad example. But I can assure you that the ideea that th people who made those comments are atheist sociopaths is simply unfounded. Just go to any Romanian news site, and whenever there's an article abouht gypsies or gays you'll see people making comments just like the ones Richard got. And the people making those comments are not atheist sociopaths (espoecially considering how few atheists live here, but also the fact that they also cite religios reasons for why they should be killed - mostly in the case of gays).

If they are citing religious reasons for why they should be killed what makes you think they are sociopaths.

Assuming you think they mean what they say.

What advantage would they get out of this?

One sympton of sociopathy is a disregard of social norms.  Not strict enforcement.

Hence why you'd expect sociopaths to be socially liberal.  They think people should be able to do whatever they want so long as it makes them feel good... because that's what sociopaths want to do.


Someone who'd mean it would be more like a "mission oriented' serial killer.