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Forums - General - The death penalty.

rocketpig said:

Question for a few of you out there: how do you rationalize pro-choice/anti-death penalty or pro-life/pro-death penalty? Without an incredible amount of moral maneuvering, it doesn't make sense to me.

I'm kind of in the middle (very pro choice, mildly against the death penalty) but only because of financial costs, really. On a morality level, how do you split it down the middle?

It is more than just the financial costs. Death penalty is a political mine field and is highly unethical and well it does not belong in a civilised world.

In my opinion: people who support the death penalty are just as civilised as Hitler/Stalin/Mao and many other benevolent dictators past and present. 

The death penalty costs two or three times more than keeping a man in prison for 30 or 40 years. Political protests and long drawn out appeal processes often come with a death penalty in a so called democratic nation. 

What if the man executed was framed and he was innocent of all charges? That would be a tragedy and definitely not

Executing a man is like torturing a defenceless animal to death. It is barbaric, cruel and not civilised. Shame, shame, shame! The government/state/crown should not kill. 

As for the abortion debate well I am pro-choice on that issue. It is up to the female to decide and the government should not interfere with personal issues. Drug addicts should be forced to have abortions and be sterilised. 



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I'm all for the death penalty. Murderer's, rapists, child molesters, armed robbers and other scum like this can't be rehabilitated and its much cheaper to kill them than it is to pay for their food and rent (aka prison) for 20 years.

I say kill the bastards.



Alby_da_Wolf said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

I know that if an innocent person I love were unjustly executed, I'd kill them.


Ahh, well it's good to know that you're obviously for the death penalty. You just seem to wish determining who the criminal is, were more accurate.

I agree with you.

Actually I'm almost totally against it, but I'm persuaded that those that are in favour of it should first accept that it should be applied in its strictest and strongest form, and up to its extreme consequences, first on themselves, even more appropriate on those that cite the Bible, as it's written right there that those that judge the others will be judged with the same measure (Matthew 7:2). Executing an innocent should be considered deliberately killing him, if he was innocent, it's obvious that the evidences weren't totally sure and any doubt was ignored with the intention of executing the suspect at any cost, to exact an easy and unjust revenge. And every argument I read up until now minimizing the execution of innocents made me want to puke, as it was clearly inspired by a lust for blood and vengeance at any cost, even of killing innocents, I read in those arguments no lesser homicide intent than in those that they would want to prosecute.

This said, I could maybe accept death penalty only for the most heinous crimes and only if there is 100% certainty of guilt, 0% possibility of error and no mitigating circumstances at all.

How are you "almost totally against it", when in your previous post (the part I originally quoted" you were willing to practice it.

Your against the death penalty, but are for killing someone due to there acts? Explain that please :)



The death penalty is used in Islamic nations and Asian nations to install fear, respect and discipline into citizens to ensure law and order is maintained. Death penalty permanently silences political opponents and criminals. 

Shari'a law could be implemented worldwide and only then the majority would support the death penalty. Stone to death prostuitutes spreading disease and committing adultery and all other criminals who commit serious offences. Mass killings without trial but an Ayatollah/High priest makes the final decision. Crime rates in Islamic nations are low because they live in fear. 

The mob chants: Guilty! Guilty! Guilty! 

Death penalty is the verdict. Quick execution and in front of a blood thirsty crowd aka Roman Gladiator style. 

Shari'a law is considered fair, just and democratic. Tax payers money is saved because there is no legal defence. Quick easy kill and silence of political opponents. 

Chinese efficient style of executions without a fair trial would help save tax payers dollars and eliminate a chance of a legal appeal. Quick execution without a legal defense and save tax payers dollars. Crime rates in China are low because they live in fear and  people can be taken away for any reason. 



Kasz216 said:
dib8rman said:

@rocketpig...

"...On the other hand, how do the pro-life/pro-death penalty advocates defend their stance?"

So an unborn child is the same as a homicidal sociopath?


Sort of.  Really until about 2-3 years old, a child WOULD kill you if it thought it'd get him what he wanted.

See, this is why I never want to have kids. I've heard way too many horror stories like this.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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rocketpig said:

I kinda figured the pro-choice/anti-death penalty crowd would use that reasoning.

On the other hand, how do the pro-life/pro-death penalty advocates defend their stance?

The irnoy is that these individuals also are generally the religious croud, which makes their stance all the more odd.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

rocketpig said:
sapphi_snake said:
rocketpig said:

 

It all comes down to whether you consider if a fetus is a human being or not. And whether you consider that a woman should be forced to go through pregancy or not (a very unpleasant and disgusting experience). I don't think I can tell a woman to go through such an ordel if she doesn't want to.

Cocnerning the death penalty, we're talking about an actual human being, not an embryo.

I kinda figured the pro-choice/anti-death penalty crowd would use that reasoning.

On the other hand, how do the pro-life/pro-death penalty advocates defend their stance?

Yep, if you're pro-choice/anti-death penalty and consider a fetus in its early stages human you would have to do quite some moral manuevering.

Pro-life/pro-death penalty I guess consider a fetus an innocent?



sapphi_snake said:
rocketpig said:

I kinda figured the pro-choice/anti-death penalty crowd would use that reasoning.

On the other hand, how do the pro-life/pro-death penalty advocates defend their stance?

The irnoy is that these individuals also are generally the religious croud, which makes their stance all the more odd.

Fanatical Christians and fantaticals Islam believe religion must be applied to society without question. Religious conservative fundamentalists. Shari'a law is application of conservative religion to law and order which governs society, very similar to the ultra conservative applications of Catholicism pre-16th century.

Religious fundamentalists want to see the reformation of church and state and the laws must strictly apply religious doctrine.



numonex said:
sapphi_snake said:
rocketpig said:

I kinda figured the pro-choice/anti-death penalty crowd would use that reasoning.

On the other hand, how do the pro-life/pro-death penalty advocates defend their stance?

The irnoy is that these individuals also are generally the religious croud, which makes their stance all the more odd.

Fanatical Christians and fantaticals Islam believe religion must be applied to society. Religious conservative fundamentalists. Shari'a law is application of conservative religion to law and order which governs society, very similar to the ultra conservative applications of Catholicism pre-16th century.

Religious fundamentalists want to see the reformation of church and state and the laws must strictly apply religious doctrine.

I am curious numo... are you actually a human being? 'Cause whenver I read one of your posts it's as if a machine/AI wrote it.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:
dib8rman said:

@rocketpig...

"...On the other hand, how do the pro-life/pro-death penalty advocates defend their stance?"

So an unborn child is the same as a homicidal sociopath?


Sort of.  Really until about 2-3 years old, a child WOULD kill you if it thought it'd get him what he wanted.

See, this is why I never want to have kids. I've heard way too many horror stories like this.

It's not a horror story really... it's just, that part of the brain of consiousness dosn't exist yet.

That's why you can't fully diagnose a sociopath until there nearly adults, because sociopathic behavior on some level is NORMAL with kids.