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Forums - General - Portrayal of Athesits and Theists in Movies/TV?

Rath said:
Kasz216 said:
pearljammer said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:

 And where the hell are the Muslims on TV?

There is quite a popular show in Canada that is centred on a Muslim family - Little Mosque on the Prairie. It's pretty good, too.

I have to agree, though, atheists are grossly under-represented in television. A good writer would no doubt be able to make an interesting openly atheist character.


An interseting openly atheist character sure... but a charcter who was interesting because he was atheist?  Not  likely the case.   There just isn't anything you can do with atheism.


While I'm not saying that atheists are under-represented on TV (because personally I couldn't care) I disagree that atheism can't be interesting in a character. Have you seen Bones at all?

Yeah, I love the show.  The only reason bones atheism is interesting is because Booth is a strict Catholic.

Atheism is only interesting as a reflection vs a belief system.  

Which, they just don't do much with religion on TV, period.  Religion in general is underrepresented because most shows dont' dealw ith it.

Atheism can really only be the "reaction."  Therefore won't always be present because some stories are purely internal.  For example, another underrepresented group on TV are agoraphobics.  

Because unless you are doing a story about agoriphobia... all it does is limit your character down the line.

 

Atheism being the absense of god, just rules god out as a story or plot telling device.  Unless there are very strong logical reasons for someone to be an atheist, or you have a plan for using it... It's kind of pointless...

and something nobody will ever notice.

Like Dumbeldore being gay.  Well written atheists on most shows, likely will go unrecognized as atheists... because they're just like regular people who don't believe in god.

It's like being someone who doesn't like seafood.  Unless presented with the issue, it isn't going to come up.   People are't going to just assume you don't like seafood.  They'll assume your like everybody else.

And chances are... it won't come up.  Well seafood is actually much more likely, since people go out and eat dozens more times then they go to church or talk about god.



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pearljammer said:
Kasz216 said:
pearljammer said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:

 And where the hell are the Muslims on TV?

There is quite a popular show in Canada that is centred on a Muslim family - Little Mosque on the Prairie. It's pretty good, too.

I have to agree, though, atheists are grossly under-represented in television. A good writer would no doubt be able to make an interesting openly atheist character.


An interseting openly atheist character sure... but a charcter who was interesting because he was atheist?  Not  likely the case.   There just isn't anything you can do with atheism.

I disagree, a character being atheist could definitely add to a show in an interesting manner:

Take The Big Bang Theory for instance. Sheldon being an atheist would create an interesting/comical strain with his relationship with his mother or any other 'regular' people that he meets.

The same conflict could be caused by making him a converted Muslim or Jew.   Then you'd have that conflict and more related to that particular religion.

Additionally, seems a bit weird course for a TV show to take.



Also, it's actually worth noting that Bones is suffering from a mental disease.

You know, it's weird.  I have a Degree in psychology and I can't figure out what you call someone who is "mentally disabled/challenged" but not actually disabled... IE has multiple docorates.

Either way,  the most interesting parts of her interactions with Booth about religion aren't because she's an atheist.  It's because she has Aspargers Syndrome.

Or as the creators say "something like it" because they don't want to be under the pressure of having to be 100% accurate towards the syndrome.

Which again, shows the issue.  Mental diseases are even more underrepresented then atheism, instead being downgraded to "quirks" because it would be limiting.   Much like atheism is as a storytelling device.

 

It's not a function of discrimination, it's a function of... functionality.



Kasz216 said:

Are atheists actually underrepresented?

I mean, how would you know?

How many shows ACTUALLY deal with religion. 

To have an atheist in a show you would need.

A) A show about religion or that deals with religion a lot.

B) A show who also needs a counterpoint to that.  Aka not a show SOLEY about religion.


I think you'll generally find on the shows where they talk about religion but it isn't the main theme, there are plenty of Atheists.

I just got done watching Babylon 5 again through netflix.  There are a number of atheists on that show.

Or heck, Look at Star Trek.  Every single person on Star Trek I think is an atheist.  Outside of Worf anyway and maybe Riker.  The thing is, nobody knows that... because atheism is kinda useless as a storytelling device. 

I mean, if Chandler from friends was an atheist.  Or George Costanza or the fat guy from king of queens... how would you know?   And why would you care?

There is nothing you can do with an "hey i'm an atheist" angle that would work in a comedy or super drama.  Basically you'd need to have it in a dramadey... and even then it's likely to be a plot point that lasts all of 1 episode because there isn't anything you can do with it.

Unlike say, religions where you can have a crisis of faith or there are things you can go to.

The only thing atheism is really "functional" for from a writing perspective is to show a pessimism to a greater force pulling you out of trouble.  Like during  a big war.

I'll agree with this. Atheism is either an activist belief (where you're actively calling out religion, which would naturally make you look like an overly assertive character), or is a non-issue. That's the main problem of looking at Atheism as a worldview in and of itself, because aside from a few Dawkins-types, it's a non-belief primarily, and one that is a component of other worldviews (like Communism or Nihilism), and not really a worldview in and of itself, and thus it's not really operative as a story component.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Kasz216 said:
pearljammer said:
 

I disagree, a character being atheist could definitely add to a show in an interesting manner:

Take The Big Bang Theory for instance. Sheldon being an atheist would create an interesting/comical strain with his relationship with his mother or any other 'regular' people that he meets.

The same conflict could be caused by making him a converted Muslim or Jew.   Then you'd have that conflict and more related to that particular religion.

Additionally, seems a bit weird course for a TV show to take.

You're right. I've thought bit about it since. I agree.

And yes, it'd definitely be a strange course for the show to take.



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Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:

Are atheists actually underrepresented?

I mean, how would you know?

How many shows ACTUALLY deal with religion. 

To have an atheist in a show you would need.

A) A show about religion or that deals with religion a lot.

B) A show who also needs a counterpoint to that.  Aka not a show SOLEY about religion.


I think you'll generally find on the shows where they talk about religion but it isn't the main theme, there are plenty of Atheists.

I just got done watching Babylon 5 again through netflix.  There are a number of atheists on that show.

Or heck, Look at Star Trek.  Every single person on Star Trek I think is an atheist.  Outside of Worf anyway and maybe Riker.  The thing is, nobody knows that... because atheism is kinda useless as a storytelling device. 

I mean, if Chandler from friends was an atheist.  Or George Costanza or the fat guy from king of queens... how would you know?   And why would you care?

There is nothing you can do with an "hey i'm an atheist" angle that would work in a comedy or super drama.  Basically you'd need to have it in a dramadey... and even then it's likely to be a plot point that lasts all of 1 episode because there isn't anything you can do with it.

Unlike say, religions where you can have a crisis of faith or there are things you can go to.

The only thing atheism is really "functional" for from a writing perspective is to show a pessimism to a greater force pulling you out of trouble.  Like during  a big war.

I'll agree with this. Atheism is either an activist belief (where you're actively calling out religion, which would naturally make you look like an overly assertive character), or is a non-issue. That's the main problem of looking at Atheism as a worldview in and of itself, because aside from a few Dawkins-types, it's a non-belief primarily, and one that is a component of other worldviews (like Communism or Nihilism), and not really a worldview in and of itself, and thus it's not really operative as a story component.


Thanks for saying what I was saying but making it sound better.  I couldn't think of anyway to put it without kinda sounding like an ass which obviously isn't my intention.  I mean, on the one hand you'd like to see everyone equally represented, but that's unlikely based on just, storytelling devices.

Law Enforcement for example is WAY over represented, and there are pretty much no TV shows about computer programmers.  Well unless they are hackers anyway.

Entertainment will be representitive of the interest of storytelling potential.

The greatest moment I can think of using atheism was in Babylon 5.  Where there is a race who messed with the development of all the younger alien races, so when they are out of their encoutner suits, they through telepathic means look like angel like being of various races.

One of the aliens has to leave their suit to save someones lives.  One guy who is a member of a race that does believe in gods though, sees nothing, because he never beleived in any of their 49 gods.

It was an interesting and fun way to show his atheism and it was interesting in how he regretted not being able to see something so wonderous like everybody else did.  I mean being able to see a giant glowing angel descend from the heavens would be quite the site to see.



Kasz216 said:

I just got done watching Babylon 5 again through netflix.  There are a number of atheists on that show.

Or heck, Look at Star Trek.  Every single person on Star Trek I think is an atheist.  Outside of Worf anyway and maybe Riker.  The thing is, nobody knows that... because atheism is kinda useless as a storytelling device. 

Ahh yes, Star Trek.  Gene Roddenbury used the show to preach secular humanism.  His universe doesn't have chaplains on board.  They aren't religious.  The show is about how reason and science can advance all intelligent life.  Someone being an atheist doesn't say anything about them.  It isn't an attribute that says something about someone.



richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:

I just got done watching Babylon 5 again through netflix.  There are a number of atheists on that show.

Or heck, Look at Star Trek.  Every single person on Star Trek I think is an atheist.  Outside of Worf anyway and maybe Riker.  The thing is, nobody knows that... because atheism is kinda useless as a storytelling device. 

Ahh yes, Star Trek.  Gene Roddenbury used the show to preach secular humanism.  His universe doesn't have chaplains on board.  They aren't religious.  The show is about how reason and science can advance all intelligent life.  Someone being an atheist doesn't say anything about them.  It isn't an attribute that says something about someone.

Yeah, I can see why a lot of star trek fans hate DS9 because it muddys and ruins that perfect idealism... and adds in religion to boot that may or may not be real to so it's not like they're even kept with an imperfect atheist universe.  Outside of like Klingons.  Who killed their gods anyway... yet have an afterlife. 

However if you ask me, it's far superior to the other Star Treks just due to far greater character development and story depth.


Though, that's largely my point in the end.  Someone being an atheist doesn't say anything about anybody.  At all.  That's true in our life too.  I mean, being a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Atheist whatever... it doesn't really say anything about you at all.

All the best writing, just writes everybody like people, with things like their religion and race as after thoughts... that if they do come up, are really hard to notice until they do come up.



I don't know about TV in general, but the top-notch shows usually don't misrepresent atheists. I'm thinking of Star Trek, Stargate, The West Wing (although they're underrepresented, it's the nature of American politics so it's no surprise, there), etc.

I think part of the issue is a sort of bias in terms of the nature of atheism itself - a normal atheist generally doesn't make a big deal about their atheism, whereas the bad ones tend to be far more vocal. While this reasoning also applies to religions (the bad ones tend to be the most vocal), there's no way for an atheist to show their atheism through their actions, in the way that religious people can (through prayer, etc). So what ends up happening is that normal atheists in a lot of TV shows don't really register as atheists because it's irrelevant to the storyline and normal atheists don't make a big deal about their atheism. Meanwhile, the bad atheists tend to have their atheism as a major part of their personality, so it produces a net negative image, not because of misrepresentation, but because of the way things are.

Having said all this, I wouldn't be surprised if some shows intentionally misrepresent atheists, especially American shows.

(EDIT: Apologies if others have already made these points, I don't really have time to read through every post right now, just wanted to post my opinion)



Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:

I just got done watching Babylon 5 again through netflix.  There are a number of atheists on that show.

Or heck, Look at Star Trek.  Every single person on Star Trek I think is an atheist.  Outside of Worf anyway and maybe Riker.  The thing is, nobody knows that... because atheism is kinda useless as a storytelling device. 

Ahh yes, Star Trek.  Gene Roddenbury used the show to preach secular humanism.  His universe doesn't have chaplains on board.  They aren't religious.  The show is about how reason and science can advance all intelligent life.  Someone being an atheist doesn't say anything about them.  It isn't an attribute that says something about someone.

Yeah, I can see why a lot of star trek fans hate DS9 because it muddys and ruins that perfect idealism... and adds in religion to boot that may or may not be real to so it's not like they're even kept with an imperfect atheist universe.  Outside of like Klingons.  Who killed their gods anyway... yet have an afterlife. 

However if you ask me, it's far superior to the other Star Treks just due to far greater character development and story depth.


Though, that's largely my point in the end.  Someone being an atheist doesn't say anything about anybody.  At all.  That's true in our life too.  I mean, being a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Atheist whatever... it doesn't really say anything about you at all.

All the best writing, just writes everybody like people, with things like their religion and race as after thoughts... that if they do come up, are really hard to notice until they do come up.

The Star Trek universe became much darker and less focused when Gene Roddenbury died.  It lacked the preachiness that gave the original Star Trek some meaning.  Anyhow, as of now Star Trek is rebooted as an action sci-fi movie, with just fun on mind.

In the case of atheism, the answer for someone comes after they become an atheist.  What exactly do they gravitate towards to give their life an identity, and something they can connect to?  Once you get that, then you start to have a character fleshed out in a movie, or any other piece of fiction.