By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - Decline and fall of the US.

TheRealMafoo said:
zgamer5 said:

wow i never thought that the bush administration was that bad.


http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/downchart_gs.php?year=2000_2010&view=1&expand=&units=p&fy=fy11&chart=G0-fed&bar=0&stack=1&size=m&title=US Federal Deficit As Percent Of GDP&state=US&color=c&local=s

Bush was nothing compared to the new guy.

All governments in the US since 1930 have played a huge role in accumulating national debts and deficits and huge foreign debt which are now considered financial sovereign risks. Military spending and waste is a huge problem and account for 60% of the US governments National Budget. US military bases in almost every single country and a military to protect the world comes at a huge cost. 

The US government has only recorded 3 or 4 budget surpluses since 1930. Something has happened and it is now a potential  sovereign risk. Greece, Spain, France, Italy, Portugal and UK, etc are all experiencing financial sovereign risks. The US is in deep water unless it takes the measures from a bipartisan approach to turn things around. Short term pain for long term gain. The self righteous civil libertarians who dominate US Congress need to start working together but that would be too hard. 



Around the Network
numonex said:
TheRealMafoo said:
zgamer5 said:

wow i never thought that the bush administration was that bad.


http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/downchart_gs.php?year=2000_2010&view=1&expand=&units=p&fy=fy11&chart=G0-fed&bar=0&stack=1&size=m&title=US Federal Deficit As Percent Of GDP&state=US&color=c&local=s

Bush was nothing compared to the new guy.

All governments in the US since 1930 have played a huge role in accumulating national debts and deficits and huge foreign debt which are now considered financial sovereign risks. Military spending and waste is a huge problem and account for 60% of the US governments National Budget. US military bases in almost every single country and a military to protect the world comes at a huge cost. 

The US government has only recorded 3 or 4 budget surpluses since 1930. Something has happened and it is not a potential  sovereign risk. Greece, Spain, France, Italy, Portugal and UK, etc are all experiencing financial sovereign risks. The US is in deep water unless it takes the measures from a bipartisan approach to turn things around. Short term pain for long term gain. The self righteous civil libertarians who dominate US Congress need to start working together but that would be too hard. 

Hey, I am the one leaving the US, because I know it's economically  doomed. You will get no argument from me :)



Badassbab said:

America has been through doom and gloom before. Civil War and the Great Depression spring to mind. It will come back. Weaker than before since there are other rising world powers and economically it's not dominant like it is militarily but even militarily it's been challenged. It's having a tough time putting down the Taliban insurgency who are mostly armed with 40 year old Soviet weapons and have limited financing and this has hurt it's prestige.


Meh, Militarily we haven't been challenged in a long, long time.  Taliban insurgency is not related to military strength in anyway.  We could rumble through the Taliban blowing up every building, location and position where we think we would find terrorists.    We use restraint because this isn't a war as much as a transfer of power. This isn't military force as much as a police force.

Militarily, we rumbled into Afghanistan / Iraq and had virtually no resistance. 



Smidlee said:
zgamer5 said:
richardhutnik said:
zgamer5 said:

wow i never thought that the bush administration was that bad.

During that era, supporters of the administration justified deficits by saying, "But we are at war".  Now that the administration isn't in power, there is harping about the deficit, and apparently thew U.S is no long at war.  Go figure.


and the banks giving loans to everyone didnt help. i really wonder how bush got elected twice.

America was in trouble long before Bush. America has been going down hill since the 70's. What every President has done is focus of short term gain while letting future generation carry the burden. Guess what, That future generation has arrived.

Bush got elected twice because the Democrats literally tried to trot,  Al Gore and John Kerry up there.  Give me a break.  This isn't even remotely close to being all Bush's fault.   The economy was waning during the final months of Clinton's presidency.



Rpruett said:

Bush got elected twice because the Democrats literally tried to trot,  Al Gore and John Kerry up there.  Give me a break.  This isn't even remotely close to being all Bush's fault.   The economy was waning during the final months of Clinton's presidency.


The only time it really is a Presidents fault, is when there party controls congress.

If they are opposing parties, it's Congresses fault. If you want to blame one person in Congress, then the speaker of the house is a good pick

So 2000-2006 is Bush, 2006-2008 is Nancy Pelosi, 2008-today, is Obama.

Things didn't really start to get bad until 2007, so no one is clean in this mess. 



Around the Network
Hoplyte said:
Lostplanet22 said:

You don't need to raise taxes, you can also make the work weeks a few hours longer for free..

People should realise that the living standars of a few years ago will not be the standard living standars in an decennia or two especially when an big part of the world find it normal to work an minimum of 12 hours a day and a minimum of 6 days a week...

This goes back to a much earlier response, but I find the quote interesting considering Lostplanet22 has an EU flag for a profile picture. I'm not being critical of the quote, just wanted to point out that the average US worker already works more hours than most European counterparts. And I'm not making that up, I've worked with international programs and seen the studies.

As for the people working 72 hrs/wk - Most of them are stuck in a life of poverty and economic slavery all to make a dollar a day (or less). Their employers can afford to work them for those long hours because of no regulations and cheap labor.

It counts for EU aswell....it is the same raise the taxes or work longer..... I just did not mention Eu considering this was an thread about USA.. And like you say most who work 72/hours a week belong to the poverty world but the group who are not pover and still work 72/hours gets bigger..



 

Rpruett said:
Badassbab said:

America has been through doom and gloom before. Civil War and the Great Depression spring to mind. It will come back. Weaker than before since there are other rising world powers and economically it's not dominant like it is militarily but even militarily it's been challenged. It's having a tough time putting down the Taliban insurgency who are mostly armed with 40 year old Soviet weapons and have limited financing and this has hurt it's prestige.


Meh, Militarily we haven't been challenged in a long, long time.  Taliban insurgency is not related to military strength in anyway.  We could rumble through the Taliban blowing up every building, location and position where we think we would find terrorists.    We use restraint because this isn't a war as much as a transfer of power. This isn't military force as much as a police force.

Militarily, we rumbled into Afghanistan / Iraq and had virtually no resistance. 

Not really. I mean sure you could nuke every part of the country but that's not victory at all. Russia, Pakistan, India etc could do that. There are over 140,000 troops from the most powerful military body in the world with the most advanced weaponary against something like 40,000 odd Taliban armed with old Soviet arms. To not call the fight against the Taliban a war is ludicrous. It's known as the War in Afghanistan. And the US has been blowing up every building, location and position they think the enemy is in otheriwse they wouldn't be doing their job properly. And to say you rumbled through Afghanistan and Iraq isn't saying much. Iraq was incredibly weak through the Gulf War and UN sanctions and Afghanistan was hardly a military power and not even unified under the Taliban, in fact most of the foot soldiers fighting on the side of the US were from the Northern Alliance.

For the US putting down an insurgency is once again proving to be far tougher than winning a conventional war. I think in any conventional war the US would win though at great cost against some of the major powers.



People like to think about negativity, but i, honestly, dont see the things that bad for the US.

 

Ok, i wont deny the things are not going that good, but there is plenty of time to make the things "in a good way", for the debt level, Japan has about a 220% ratio and still is there even with the old population problems and many others in their hands.

The US still has a huge working population, the debt level is sort of low, they still invest huge amounts of money in R&D and overall, i think that doing the right choices, everything will be better in time.



You may find a mirror trying to find the other side of the world

To start cutting the deficit, someone tell the US military that Hitler is dead and the USSR doesn't exist anymore. They can leave their bases in Germany.



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

Badassbab said:
Rpruett said:
Badassbab said:

America has been through doom and gloom before. Civil War and the Great Depression spring to mind. It will come back. Weaker than before since there are other rising world powers and economically it's not dominant like it is militarily but even militarily it's been challenged. It's having a tough time putting down the Taliban insurgency who are mostly armed with 40 year old Soviet weapons and have limited financing and this has hurt it's prestige.


Meh, Militarily we haven't been challenged in a long, long time.  Taliban insurgency is not related to military strength in anyway.  We could rumble through the Taliban blowing up every building, location and position where we think we would find terrorists.    We use restraint because this isn't a war as much as a transfer of power. This isn't military force as much as a police force.

Militarily, we rumbled into Afghanistan / Iraq and had virtually no resistance. 

Not really. I mean sure you could nuke every part of the country but that's not victory at all. Russia, Pakistan, India etc could do that. There are over 140,000 troops from the most powerful military body in the world with the most advanced weaponary against something like 40,000 odd Taliban armed with old Soviet arms. To not call the fight against the Taliban a war is ludicrous. It's known as the War in Afghanistan. And the US has been blowing up every building, location and position they think the enemy is in otheriwse they wouldn't be doing their job properly. And to say you rumbled through Afghanistan and Iraq isn't saying much. Iraq was incredibly weak through the Gulf War and UN sanctions and Afghanistan was hardly a military power and not even unified under the Taliban, in fact most of the foot soldiers fighting on the side of the US were from the Northern Alliance.

For the US putting down an insurgency is once again proving to be far tougher than winning a conventional war. I think in any conventional war the US would win though at great cost against some of the major powers.

I have a contrarian view on Afghanistan and Iraq:

Both were practice rounds for future urban conflicts for us and every participating nation who pledged troops.

Currently, August 2010 is the end of conventional military operations in Iraq. This has been noted in the media, but has flown under the radar.

As for Afghanistan, we are engaged in a civil war. The Taliban can be any Afghani citizen, but they dare not distinguish themselves with a uniform or noticeable piece of clothing because they would put a bulls eye on their forehead. Instead, they hide their weapons in the basement when the patrols come into town and then stone their wives and cut off the noses and ears of runaway brides once the patrols roll out.

What we should do in Afghanistan is prop up a pro-US dictator and give him carte blanche to root out and exterminate the Taliban like the rats they are.

As for the whole doom and gloom discussion, meh, the US is not the only nation feeling it at the moment. Europe, Japan and others are not doing as well as they were 5 to 10 years ago. We would be worse off as a planet, but fortunately we are not.