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Forums - Gaming - 3 reasons why to NOT buy a new 3DTV for gaming.

Ssenkahdavic on 28 July 2010

Here is Mitsu's definition of Side/Side, Top/Bottom and Frame Packing:

  1. Frame Packing — a very high resolution 3D signal that requires a lot of bandwidth — this is not suitable for most broadcasting over Cable TV systems or Satellite systems. It is very suitable for Blu-ray disc and gaming systems. For the USA, there is 1080p at 24 frames per second — sent by Blu-ray players and 720p at 60 frames per second expected to be used by future gaming consoles.
  • Side-By-side — this is where a normal video frame actually contains two frames (one for each eye) and if not processed as a 3D signal would look like two pictures side by side on the screen of the TV. In the USA most of these signals will be 1080p 24 or 30 frames per second, 1080i 60 fields per second, or 720p 60 frames per second. These signals are suitable for broadcast applications.
  • Top-Bottom — this is similar to Side-by-Side where the normal video frame actually contains two frames except the normal frame is divided in haft top to bottom. Again the in the USA most of these will be 1080p 24, or 30 frames per second, 1080i 60 fields per second or 720p 60 frames per second. These types of signal are also suitable for broadcast.


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    raygun on 28 July 2010
    selnor said:
    disolitude said:
    Slimebeast said:

    Dam, I really wanted the 46 inch Samsung 3DTV!

    But maybe it's mature when new models come out next year?

    As for the 24 fps Blue ray input at 1080p I think that sounds awkward since 24fps is not enuff to provide a satysfying 3D-picture. I fought Bluray in 3D was 48 fps.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p

    1080p@24p per eye. Yes 48 fps overall video processing but you are seeing a 3D image at 1080p24p for bluray.

    Its pretty sad that my 2 year old 3D samsung DLP can take a 1080p 3D signal at 60 hz. Sure, I am getting only 1080i per eye in checkerboard pattern...but even that looks better than straight up 720p 3D which these TVs displayfor gaming.

    That would explain reports from E3 that GT5 and KZ3 didnt seem very 3d when playing them in 3d. 

    As I said at E3 time. Glassless 3d TV's will be here in 4-5 years, with better results. Everyone needs to wait for it.

    You didn't see the Jimmy Fallon show where he tried killzone3 in 3d? Jimmy says, "OMG,OMG,OMG"

    http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/blogs/2010/06/tonight-on-video-game-week-killzone-3/

    I can see rainbows, and I wonder what's going on behind the scenes in our brains when we look at a image that's changing colors720 times a second. Sure, we consciously can't see it happen, buts subconsciously it's got to be scrambling your brains. The real natural world isn't lit with superfast flickering lights, and our brains aren't really meant to deal with them. DLP's are unnatural, I say! Begone!



    raygun on 28 July 2010
    disolitude said:

    @raygun

    Here is a site which explains what top/bottom 3D is as well as other formats.

    Its basically what I said it was. No interlacing, but TV stretches it and then most likely upscales it to the displays native resolution...

    http://www.practical-home-theater-guide.com/3d-tv-formats.html

    "... vertical resolution that is reduced by half as the images for the left and right eye are stored on top of each other in a single frame; this latter set-up is referred to as Top/Bottom 3D."

     "The 3D processor inside the 3D TV will expand the corresponding half frame image into a full-size image for each eye in accordance with the native resolution of the HDTV.  "

     

    However the article was written in april 2010 and is wrong about PS3 using top/bottom. PS3 uses 720p frame packing format, which is similar to top and bottom but not quite the same. Its still top and bottom layout but no upscaling is done by the TV... PS3 has to internally upscale the image to 720p (if the game isn't running natively at that res) and double it in order to send 1280x1440 video frame containing both left and right frames...after which TV shows 1280x720 image to each eye.

    So that means it's really a 1920x540 stereo image upscaled to 1920x1080, and they call it a 1080p format, that's lame. I'd have to see it to judge though, it might look alright since it still has plenty of horizontal rez. Maybe i'll try some image manipulation experiments and check out the results. 



    raygun on 28 July 2010
    disolitude said:
    raygun said:
     

    As far as best for the money...again I repeat, that Laser TV from mitsubishi

    - No bulb to replace! (yay! I hate bulbs and thats why I bought the Samsung LED DLP instead of Mitsubishis bulb one)

    - No color wheel

    - Best colors - can produce up to 90% of the colors a human eye can perceive (Twice that of best current HDTVs)

    - 1/4 of the power usage compared to plasmas.

    - no picture degredation or burn in until The TV dies

    etc

    I'f I had 5000 dollars I'd buy the 65 inch Laser TV in a heartbeat. But it is rather large so I see someone potentially being turned off if they need a smaller TV...

    As far as that 480hz Vizio I find it hard to believe that is a true 480 hz refresh pannel. 240 hz pannels just came out and were shown at CES 2010... Its probably reffereing to something else like the backlight refresh rate but not the pannel it self.

    If you ask me, as long as you have true 120 hz refresh rate, its much more important to have a fast screen response time rather than a higher refresh rate. Sure your picture may be slightly smoother with a 240 hz pannel, but you will still see crosstalk in 3D. 2 ms response time is the fastest these large LEDs have and thats still way too much for 3D. Plasmas are less and more acceptable for 3D IMO. (DLPs are even less)

    If they come out with a 55" or so laser under $3000 i'd be all over it, i've read the reviews. I'll do some googling to see if they have plans for one. The ultimate will be OLEDs, a 50" would be fine, but we are talking a couple more years, and who knows how much they will cost. Your right, the Vizio 480hz aren't true 480hz, they are using some back-light trickery, strobing, to simulate 480hz. But it could help with the LCD 3d ghosting problems. Ghosting happens because the LCD panels pixels are slow to change, as well as the shutter glasses speed, and their opaqueness when 'shuttered'. Well, what if the back-light is off when the ghosting is happening, and only turns on after the LCD and shutters have settled? You won't see the ghosting. It's still happening, but the back-light is off when it's ghosting. Also, since they are  LED back-lit they can flicker completely on and off several times per frame, which tricks the brain into thinking it's smoother. But i'll have to wait for the reviews next month. It's got to be a good 2d tv also, or I won't buy.



    disolitude on 28 July 2010
    raygun said:

    If they come out with a 55" or so laser under $3000 i'd be all over it, i've read the reviews. I'll do some googling to see if they have plans for one. The ultimate will be OLEDs, a 50" would be fine, but we are talking a couple more years, and who knows how much they will cost. Your right, the Vizio 480hz aren't true 480hz, they are using some back-light trickery, strobing, to simulate 480hz. But it could help with the LCD 3d ghosting problems. Ghosting happens because the LCD panels pixels are slow to change, as well as the shutter glasses speed, and their opaqueness when 'shuttered'. Well, what if the back-light is off when the ghosting is happening, and only turns on after the LCD and shutters have settled? You won't see the ghosting. It's still happening, but the back-light is off when it's ghosting. Also, since they are  LED back-lit they can flicker completely on and off several times per frame, which tricks the brain into thinking it's smoother. But i'll have to wait for the reviews next month. It's got to be a good 2d tv also, or I won't buy.

    The 480 hz Vizio may be good  solution for ghosting when going from light to dark or other contrast related aspects.I'll have to check it out when it becomes available.

    Otherwise I dont think it pays off for Laser TVs to be made under 60 inches. Its kinda like the same reason plasmas aren't made under 42 inches. It really doesn't cost them much more to make a 65 inch laser than it does to make a 55 inch one. And they can charge 1000 more for a 65 inch model so...