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Forums - Sony - Sony to use Nvidia Tegra for PSP2; explains delay

toMsons7551 on 15 July 2010

More than a Quarter? Hmmm, so it's more powerful than 10 Wii's put together (lol, lowblow)..



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dharh on 15 July 2010

SONY needs to wait at least 6 months after 3DS drops. They are _still_ having issues with PSP1/PSN games. Until they get that crap figured out, its a no go. PSP2 pretty much has to be backwards compatible, both UMD and the download versions. _Every_ single game released for PSP2 must be available digitally and physically, you pick which one you want to buy. Anything else and they might as well forget it.



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Hephaestos on 15 July 2010

I'm definitely no expert, but the 3DS, even allowing for 3D computing is nowhere near the geforce 6 I had :x... and the resolution should help the 3DS. I'd agree with the GC tech level... though i'd still find that a bit high.

 

In any case... I still think SNES quality graphics are great so .....



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Soleron on 15 July 2010
Hephaestos said:

In any case... I still think SNES quality graphics are great so .....

Yes. I think 2D games don't need to look better than Yoshi's Island, and 3D games don't need to look better than Mario Sunshine, in order to be perfectly playable and immersive.



jarrod on 15 July 2010
dahuman said:
jarrod said:
dahuman said:
Soleron said:
jarrod said:
...

GameCube could do soft/self shadowing, normal mapping, specular highlights and subsurface scattering?  News to me. ;)

Agreed. The effects are better and the chip is easier to work with. However the number of textures/polygons look to me to be Gamecube level, in that I can imagine Mario Sunshine being at the limit of what the chip could display assuming the E3 demos show off the chip well.

The GPU core in 3DS is based on DMP's PICA chip, which dates back to 2006 as the first iteration btw.  I'm not sure why you're using ATi chips to try and give a timeline versus Tegra?

The Gamecube used an ATI chip that dates in architecture from 2001. Since I'm guessing the  Pica200's chip is about GC capability, and that Tegra is about GF6 capability, I'm measuring the differential in desktop-GPU-years.

Of course both chips were designed much later than those dates, but handheld GPU capability tends to be in step with desktop GPU capability, just X years apart from needing Y number of die shrinks to get the power envelope to ~1/30 of its previous size.

Restated: they can make a chip as capable as 10 years ago now but with 1/30 of the power use.



he was just being a smart ass, the cube can do all those and more, but you have to work on a fixed pipeline if you want a lot of other things which can be very inefficient on performance. Pica unfortunately is in that same state but with a very updated design and supports GL ES1.1(which is 1.5 really) so people can do much more since it supports the common important effects of today's games.

Wii could maybe, but it's my understanding that GameCube's nerfed memory architecture inhibited a lot of use for the TEV.  Of course, developer apathy seems to have made pushing TEV on Wii an equally futile proposition.  At least Wii managed normal mapping and rim lighting. :/

Also, the NV2A  in the Xbox was technically a fixed pipeline chip.  People tend to associate the fixed nature of Flipper as what held it back, but it was really just familiarity with the APIs.  That's something that Xbox and now 3DS don't suffer, thankfully.

actually, you have the thing in reverse, NV2A was one of the first to have programmable pipelines, but the xbox was too much like a PC and had bottlenecks when it came to memory, the Cube parts worked much better in sync than the original Xbox ever could. The problem if you ask me, was the limited storage with the mini DVD in the cube, stupid decision.

But GC only had 24MB of really usable RAM (plus the 3MB on die)?  I thought that was the chief limiting factor in really pushing the system?

And yeah, I know Xbox was terrible when it came to efficiency, but it was my understanding that Pixel Shader 1.1 is fixed function register combiners (similar to TEV) and that's what NVA2 (GeForce3 series based) used?  It wasn't truly programmable (just as the PICA200 core in 3DS isn't), just better exploited, supported and documented than what we saw with TEV?



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jarrod on 15 July 2010
tingyu said:

Just ask the Experts at Digital Foundry OK?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-nintendo-3ds?page=1

"What we do have is a massively significant increase in rendering power over the existing DS, leap-frogging the PSP and probably offering around the same horsepower as a Dreamcast, maybe in some respects giving PS2-level performance. But from everything I've seen so far there's no sign of the sort of rendering features that you see in iPad or iPhone 3GS, so no evidence of programmable pixel shaders or other state-of-the-art OpenGL ES 2.0 loveliness."

"That being the case, to compare 3DS with Wii, or even GameCube, in terms of graphical quality based on this beautiful demo probably doesn't do the home console justice. The best demos we see based on actual game assets are of Dreamcast quality."

My opinion is, PSP already lost the battle to the DS even it has much more graphical power (PS2 vs N64, which is night and day), it can still barely hold on in Japan because of Monster Hunter only, a third party game which can jump ship any minute.

The difference now between 3DS and Tegra 2 is only between shader and no shader, to be flank, I wont know the difference. The only thing Tegra 2 might offer is ease of development by utilizing Open Gl on familiar Nvidia architecture by most of developers. 

PSP2 need to have groundbreaking technologies to counter the naked eye 3D effect of 3DS, polygon numbers doesnt matter now. Dual analog for FPS and no-stylus Capacity touchscreen for adventure game is a must.


That Digital Foundry article was discredited almost immediately with conflicting first hand accounts... they really should edit it or take it down.  The confirmed GPU already confirms pixel shader functions, and multiple developers have even shown such effects in-game (normal maps in MGS, self shadowing in SSF4, specular highlights in RE, even MSAA in StarFox 64).  Plus you have other conflicting information, like Kojima saying they used the MGS4 models for the Snake Eater 3D demo... not quite "Dreamcast quality" there. ;)



Christian973 on 15 July 2010

Sony loses even more millions of dollars with the PSP2 confirmed. sigh....



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joeorc on 15 July 2010
M.U.G.E.N said:

SO another thread where a rumor of a psp2 which means it should just die or will be a failure by the usual crowd?

yep

from the op's ref. site for this info:

Charlie has no sources inside anything whatsoever lol.
He works off AMD checks, if you can call this "work".

:D



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

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jarrod on 15 July 2010
joeorc said:
M.U.G.E.N said:

SO another thread where a rumor of a psp2 which means it should just die or will be a failure by the usual crowd?

yep

from the op's ref. site for this info:

Charlie has no sources inside anything whatsoever lol.
He works off AMD checks, if you can call this "work".

:D

His track record speaks for itself though.  Anyone looking to discredit Charlie can't really get around that...



z101 on 15 July 2010

Let's face the facts: Even if Sony could shrink the PS3 to handheld size, the 3DS will blow it away easy. Gaming is not about cpu/gpu-power anymore.



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