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Forums - General - Why I am leaving the US...

NoddyHolder said:

just to point this out: the only way many people can BE rich is by exploiting workers...either in their own nation or overseas, heck USA MNC's have what are essentially workhouses in most developing nations, worse yet in 3rd world nations too.

but you Yanks dont care, so long as you get cheap shitty products that you dont need, sadly video games may well be among those that are made this way.

think of it like this, for every dollar less you pay for a shirt you buy at Primark, 500 or so kids must live in poverty in other countries.

capitalists are the slave drivers of the modern world.

Um... no.

You REALLY need to find some real world perspective.

Here is a good start.

Childhood Labour.  Good or Bad?

My guess is you said Bad.

You couldn't be anymore wrong.

The banning of Childhood labour in third world countries only correlates with one thing.   Childhood deaths.

Whenever childhood labour is banned in a poor country child mortaility greatly raises because children in some countries need money to eat.  They starve. 

You are trying to apply a very specific western view to the entire world.

A dollar here isn't a dollar in Zimbabwe.   You need to look at exchange rates and Purchasing Parity Power... aka what you can buy with what you are being paid.  You can buy a lot more in Zimbabwe with the "slave wages" you are getting paid then you could in the US.

Also what you are paid versus the wages currently available in your country.



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Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
almcchesney said:
since youve been a think tank in the military i expect you to know that presidential ellection is completely rigged. And the ones with power in the country are setting up a system that stiffles self growth and depleting the middle class.

But... if there was a giant conspiracy to control the US if anything you'd want a strong middleclass that the poor could think they could strive for to keep them complacent.

I mean what would destroying the middleclass do other then take away the transition from rich to poor enraging the poor into revolt?

Ah, but that's just it.  They don't need or want a STRONG middle class.  Just enough to string along the poor to give them hope, while cycling them in and out of poverty.  The lucky ones might even get to ride the coattails of the ruling class if they toady up hard enough. 


Nah, if you have just a weak middle class there is a HUGE chance that anything that is out of your control could destroy it and screw you.

Basic Machevelli.  You need to make sure the people give are your base even if you don't give a shit about them.

That and you'd want to promote class and racial inequality as a big deal as a means to have the poor at odds with each other.

That way it deflects the anger.  Poor minorities are mad at the majority in general.  While the poor majority instead of being made at the rich people get mad at the minorities for getting extra benefits despite the fact that they are just as poor and don't know any super rich guys who give a damn about them but are treated as if they are in the same club.


Really... an optimal behidn the scenes puppet government would operate a lot like Bill Clinton.

Honestly capitalism is a horrible system of government in general to have a puppet government.  Your better off it communism or psuedo capitalism with lots of direct controls... take China for example.  China right now are doing a brilliant job of managing the economy so they get the benefits of capitalism to their people, but can still hold them down.  The growing chinese middleclass is greatly reducing strife and mistrust with the government.

Destroy the middle class and your screwed... allow the middle class to eaisly bridge into wealth and you've got the risk of putting more players on the board who's ideals you can't control.

Nah you'd want to be like Clintoneque.  Try for a strong middle class, try to make the poor rely on the government so they don't want to ever take it down and put in plenty of barriers for new people to become super rich via higher tax rates on earned income.  Keeps the old money strong.



TheRealMafoo said:
nitekrawler1285 said:


Youtube now trumps all of those sources of information.  People want someone to show them the right way.  They just don't know where to look.  Maybe with your connections you can start a think tank and air it via Youtube so that the masses can see that insight.  I have long been hoping that someone with some economic and political brilliance made a "show" on the internet where they can give non B.S. answers to major issues.  Maybe you can be that guy.  If you are smart enough i'm sure you could monetize it for yourself as well.  

You don't even have to live in America to broadcast the good message. It could be the beginning of a new counter culture.  That is normally how societies tend to change attitudes right. A small but visible culture of people who believe and act in accordance with their beliefs that eventually become socially accepted.

Not to mention that most of those news outlets are in decline because consumers are indifferent to their messages that are too controlled by party lines and anyone who is smart realizes that real answers aren't going to come from one extreme or the other.

Hmm... that's not a bad idea. I could make a video podcast, or do something on justin.tv.

I will think about it. Thanks! :)

I'm actually building a studio in my office in hopes of doing that :-p



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

fastyxx said:
TheRealMafoo said:
fastyxx said:

@ OP

One down, 100 million to go.  Take Rush and Sarah with you, if you please.


If all the people you want to leave left, who's money would you spend? All people would have to actually pay there own way.


Give me a break.    A dozen greedy replacements will fill your shoes in the first week.  

 

Your illustration of a guy working his way up to being regional manager illustrates the flaws in how you think and why I could never agree with you. He worked his butt off and now has to pay more taxes.  Oh no.  He has to help people financially the way he was helped.  With public schools and subsidized health care and likely at least somewhat publicly funded higher education, and in a million different ways that our tax dollars help us all every day.  

The amount of money the government has that does the things you mentioned - education and health care - is a minor fraction of what they take. So your very wrong. What about that 10% they take from us to fund the wars in the middle east? Or the 8.5% they take to fund a rotting pension plan that doesn't work?

Because as we all know, someone getting promoted and rising to the top is always based solely on one man's dedication and ambition.  There's no racial/gender/class bias, no luck, no hard work from all the fellow employees that may or may not also earn promotions, no nepotism, no favoritism.  It's all pure and clean.  So why not take all the spoils one can manipulate the system to garner for one's self, and why not just leave the others to fend for themselves.  Survival of the fittest, right?  If those poor people wanted to make more money, they'd just try harder.  It's as simple as that.  

You act like its 100% dirty. The truth is somewhere else. Its closer to 80% luck, 20% favoritism. Even if its 50/50, the fact is...I'd rather take a 50/50 shot at becoming rich than a 100% shot at being poor.

The tax burden in this country - especially with the loopholes and advantages in tax code for the wealthiest - is so low when compared to our own history and to that of so many countries worldwide - that to whine about it is new heights of greed and selfishness and egocentrism.  

I don't think Mafoo or anyone else disagrees with that. We all want a fair tax system, that ensures that people who make money are taxed properly. I'm a big fan of a flat tax minor income tax for millionaires. Either way, we DO need a new tax system in America, because it does promote credits, loopholes, and other means to exploit others.

So good luck in New Zealand.  And since you don't like the government using our money, please renounce your citizenship and stay away from any ambassadorships, security and any aid that the U.S. may provide any Pacific nations.  Don't want to waste the precious tax dollars.





Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

NoddyHolder said:
HappySqurriel said:
NoddyHolder said:

just to point this out: the only way many people can BE rich is by exploiting workers...either in their own nation or overseas, heck USA MNC's have what are essentially workhouses in most developing nations, worse yet in 3rd world nations too.

but you Yanks dont care, so long as you get cheap shitty products that you dont need, sadly video games may well be among those that are made this way.

think of it like this, for every dollar less you pay for a shirt you buy at Primark, 500 or so kids must live in poverty in other countries.

capitalists are the slave drivers of the modern world.

So Google's (and many other Tech companies) well paying jobs with excellent benefits are "screwing" their employees?

If you go and actually talk with many of these "Exploited" workers in third world countries you would find that they desperately want to work in these "Low Wage" positions because of how well paying they are. While $1 to $2 per hour seems like slave wages to those of us who live in the western world, many of these individuals would earn (roughly) $1 to $2 per day if it wasn’t for these industrialists. On top of that, these wages cycle through the local economy and increase the standard of living of everyone; and you can see this effect in China and India today (compared to what they were several years ago) and you can see the end result of this "Exploitation" in Japan and South Korea.

 

If your employer is not giving you a fair wage find another job, and if no employer will pay you the wage you desire to do work they believe you’re capable of start a business and make the money for yourself; and if you can’t find someone to pay you what you desire regardless of whether you’re an employee or an entrepreneur, maybe your skills just aren’t that valuable.


so, exploitation is okay if people have no other choice because you keep those nations in debt and oppressed?

seriously, that kind of justification is so pathetic, all it does is show how capitalists are a bunch of self righteous scum who would gladly sell the rest of the world into slavery to get an extra car.

Compare and contrast the growth rate and standards of living in countries that are supposedly being "exploited" by western powers to those that are free from western influence. Would you rather have the average standard of living of Zimbabwe or Japan, Haiti or South Korea, Guinea or China, Gambia or India?

Are the citizens of Japan worse off for being "exploited" by American industry after World War II?

Are the citizens of South Korea worse off for being "exploited" by American industry after the Korean War?

Are the citizens of North Korea well off for being free from Capitalist influence?

 

Now to make my point on how the citizens of these countries feel about being "exploited" ... If a company moves to your town, hires you with little or no education or experience, and started paying you $250,000 per year would you be upset if people in another part of the world who have a dramatically higher cost of living earn far more than you?



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stupid point is irrelevant.



@ mr. stickball

You act like the people that are promoting the wars aren't the same people decrying taxation.  The very opposite is true  I agree the wars are an incredible economic drain.  But the Cheney/Rove neo-cons are the ones that want the Bush tax breaks wars = no deficit.  Which just is impossible.



Can't we all just get along and play our games in peace?

NoddyHolder said:

stupid point is irrelevant.


So which definition of exploit or exploitation includes the collaboration of two parties for their mutual benefit?



fastyxx said:

@ mr. stickball

You act like the people that are promoting the wars aren't the same people decrying taxation.  The very opposite is true  I agree the wars are an incredible economic drain.  But the Cheney/Rove neo-cons are the ones that want the Bush tax breaks wars = no deficit.  Which just is impossible.


I think you need to consider that there are social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, libertarians (or classical liberals), independent voters and partisan republicans who vote for the republicans; and just because one segment of their supporters favoured both the wars on terror and tax-cuts without spending cuts does not mean that everyone did/does.

I’m not an American but I supported the initial effort in Afghanistan (as did the United Nations and most western countries) because there was a legitimate reason to go to war, I rejected the war in Iraq because I doubted the reason to go to war, and I believe that since the United States choose these wars they have an obligation to remain in both countries until they are stable and secure countries with growing economies and raising standards of living. I am for tax cuts but only if there is a proportional decrease in spending, and I believe that cutting taxes without cutting spending is just as reckless as increasing spending without increasing taxes; and the deficit spending that results from either is more damaging in the long run than the problems you’re trying to solve with the increased spending or decreased taxes.



HappySqurriel said:
fastyxx said:

@ mr. stickball

You act like the people that are promoting the wars aren't the same people decrying taxation.  The very opposite is true  I agree the wars are an incredible economic drain.  But the Cheney/Rove neo-cons are the ones that want the Bush tax breaks wars = no deficit.  Which just is impossible.


I think you need to consider that there are social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, libertarians (or classical liberals), independent voters and partisan republicans who vote for the republicans; and just because one segment of their supporters favoured both the wars on terror and tax-cuts without spending cuts does not mean that everyone did/does.

I’m not an American but I supported the initial effort in Afghanistan (as did the United Nations and most western countries) because there was a legitimate reason to go to war, I rejected the war in Iraq because I doubted the reason to go to war, and I believe that since the United States choose these wars they have an obligation to remain in both countries until they are stable and secure countries with growing economies and raising standards of living. I am for tax cuts but only if there is a proportional decrease in spending, and I believe that cutting taxes without cutting spending is just as reckless as increasing spending without increasing taxes; and the deficit spending that results from either is more damaging in the long run than the problems you’re trying to solve with the increased spending or decreased taxes.

Right.  But if you look at the voting records in the Senate, especially, this never happens, especially on the Republican side, but true for both major parties.  The thought that cutting taxes for the rich will stimulate jobs and wealth trickling down to the rest of the country has utterly failed.  It only furthered the re-distribution of wealth in the upper 1/2 of 1% of the country.  And they cry about Obama or whomever "redistributing wealth" as if it's a criminal concept - - when that's what they themselves have been doing since 1980 (with the aid of Clinton, to an extent, once he had loss of the Congress midway through.)  

They've squeezed out the moderates in the Republican party in a race for the money that comes from the extreme social conservatives who are trying to cling to a fundamental  Christian model for the country:  which of course is ironic in that Christians are taught to care for others and the poor and the weak and they turn around and cut every support possible and treat the poor like their own personal slave labor force.  Their response is that the private sector and charitable organizations will pick up the slack through donations, but it's just not the case, especially in economic situations like our current one.  Charitable donations are way down except in the case of a disaster, like Katrina or Haiti.  People just don't feel like they have the extra money because the short term future is so uncertain.  But the people claiming the moral purity are largely using that as a front - - they delivered very little on that front throughout the Bush years.  Their larger goals are really to protect their money and the corporate structures they all have large investment and stake in and that fund their campaigns.  (The latter is true for most of both sides.)  You only need to look at how they handle reform on Wall Street, the banking crises and the BP oil spill to see this.  



Can't we all just get along and play our games in peace?