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Forums - Gaming - JRPG's are dead

SmoothCriminal on 11 June 2010
lestatdark said:
SmoothCriminal said:
Wagram said:
badgenome said:

You can put a J in front of it, but it's not an RPG.


You can keep telling yourself that. Because it is no matter what you or the others say.


In order for a game to be an RPG, it must involve role-playing, something that most JRPGs tend to not have. As far as I'm concerned, Final Fantasy is just as much an RPG as The Secret of Monkey Island. The real distinction should be between western and eastern adventure games, as that is what they really are.

Actually, at one point in time, FF had as much role-playing elements as WRPGs did. Final Fantasy II was probably one of the rare cases of JRPGs that used a system of learn by doing. You could define your role by the actions that you partake during the game, pretty much like the Elder Scrolls series does. 

And you do play as a role in JRPGs. The main difference is that the roles are usually more defined and rigid than in WRPGs. Unfortunately, most of the recent WRPGs have also use a very rigid structure to how each character's role progresses. 

To be completely fair, neither WRPGs nor JRPGs should be called true RPGs, as your choices are pretty much irrelevant. True RPGs (board ones) give you total freedom to affect the development of not only your character, but how that role ends up affecting and shaping the entire flow and history of the game. In video games, that structure is extremely limited, because you can only allow so much freedom before you have to fix a story/stories that have to be followed, no matter your choices.

I already posted a response, but yours is infinitely better than mine.

 



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SmoothCriminal on 11 June 2010
dtewi said:
SmoothCriminal said:

What I'm saying is why don't we just call them Japanese Adventure Games (because JAGs is a stupid abbreviation i guess :P). By this defintion, there are many RPGs. Modern Warfare is an RPG, Bioshock is an RPG, Dead Space is an RPG, Resident Evil 4/5 are RPGs, Demi-God is an RPG even Counter-Strike could be seen as a limited RPG. 

 

For example, even though S.T.AL.K.E.R. has no points or leveling up, it's still involves much more role-playing than any FF game. When my friends and I play DnD, we forget stats and just play it as we see fit, but it's still and RPG.

 

 

I guess what I'm saying is that JRPGs have been misbranded since their inception, and there's little we can do about it now.

...are you deaf?

Actually yes, I am partially deaf.

 

:P



Xxain on 11 June 2010
SmoothCriminal said:
dtewi said:
SmoothCriminal said:

What I'm saying is why don't we just call them Japanese Adventure Games (because JAGs is a stupid abbreviation i guess :P). By this defintion, there are many RPGs. Modern Warfare is an RPG, Bioshock is an RPG, Dead Space is an RPG, Resident Evil 4/5 are RPGs, Demi-God is an RPG even Counter-Strike could be seen as a limited RPG. 

 

For example, even though S.T.AL.K.E.R. has no points or leveling up, it's still involves much more role-playing than any FF game. When my friends and I play DnD, we forget stats and just play it as we see fit, but it's still and RPG.

 

 

I guess what I'm saying is that JRPGs have been misbranded since their inception, and there's little we can do about it now.

...are you deaf?

Actually yes, I am partially deaf.

 

:P


We are all deaf on the internet actually.



dtewi on 11 June 2010
SmoothCriminal said:
dtewi said:
SmoothCriminal said:

What I'm saying is why don't we just call them Japanese Adventure Games (because JAGs is a stupid abbreviation i guess :P). By this defintion, there are many RPGs. Modern Warfare is an RPG, Bioshock is an RPG, Dead Space is an RPG, Resident Evil 4/5 are RPGs, Demi-God is an RPG even Counter-Strike could be seen as a limited RPG. 

 

For example, even though S.T.AL.K.E.R. has no points or leveling up, it's still involves much more role-playing than any FF game. When my friends and I play DnD, we forget stats and just play it as we see fit, but it's still and RPG.

 

 

I guess what I'm saying is that JRPGs have been misbranded since their inception, and there's little we can do about it now.

...are you deaf?

Actually yes, I am partially deaf.

 

:P


Then I'll repeat myself:

Separate battles with specialized systems and points to power up. (not any of the games you listed). The games you listed had elements, but not all of them.

And you still focus on its definition.



Kimi wa ne tashika ni ano toki watashi no soba ni ita

Itsudatte itsudatte itsudatte

Sugu yoko de waratteita

Nakushitemo torimodosu kimi wo

I will never leave you

SmoothCriminal on 11 June 2010
Xxain said:
SmoothCriminal said:
dtewi said:
SmoothCriminal said:

What I'm saying is why don't we just call them Japanese Adventure Games (because JAGs is a stupid abbreviation i guess :P). By this defintion, there are many RPGs. Modern Warfare is an RPG, Bioshock is an RPG, Dead Space is an RPG, Resident Evil 4/5 are RPGs, Demi-God is an RPG even Counter-Strike could be seen as a limited RPG. 

 

For example, even though S.T.AL.K.E.R. has no points or leveling up, it's still involves much more role-playing than any FF game. When my friends and I play DnD, we forget stats and just play it as we see fit, but it's still and RPG.

 

 

I guess what I'm saying is that JRPGs have been misbranded since their inception, and there's little we can do about it now.

...are you deaf?

Actually yes, I am partially deaf.

 

:P


We are all deaf on the internet actually.

No, but I actually am partially deaf...



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lestatdark on 11 June 2010
SmoothCriminal said:
dtewi said:
SmoothCriminal said:

In order for a game to be an RPG, it must involve role-playing, something that most JRPGs tend to not have. As far as I'm concerned, Final Fantasy is just as much an RPG as The Secret of Monkey Island. The real distinction should be between western and eastern adventure games, as that is what they really are.

In video game terms, RPGs are games that involve a form of separate battles taking place with a specialized battle system and the use of a system that increases your power through a form of points.

Sure, what you say is the definition, but the connotation of RPGs is what they are in video games.

What I'm saying is why don't we just call them Japanese Adventure Games (because JAGs is a stupid abbreviation i guess :P). By this defintion, there are many RPGs. Modern Warfare is an RPG, Bioshock is an RPG, Dead Space is an RPG, Resident Evil 4/5 are RPGs, Demi-God is an RPG even Counter-Strike could be seen as a limited RPG. 

 

For example, even though S.T.AL.K.E.R. has no points or leveling up, it's still involves much more role-playing than any FF game. When my friends and I play DnD, we forget stats and just play it as we see fit, but it's still and RPG.

 

 

I guess what I'm saying is that JRPGs have been misbranded since their inception, and there's little we can do about it now.

nvm, wrong quote



Current PC Build

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AkibaFan on 11 June 2010

he is genralising whole genr on 1 game, tht is th worst thng u cn do in a argument. did u make tis thread for flamebait op? 

If i play oblivion (tht buggy game) and say wrpg's are dead is tht fair?

ff13 can be whatvr it wnts, bt 4 me it was bettr thn all othr games this gen and i hd th most fun.



dtewi on 11 June 2010
AkibaFan said:

he is genralising whole genr on 1 game, tht is th worst thng u cn do in a argument. did u make tis thread for flamebait op? 

If i play oblivion (tht buggy game) and say wrpg's are dead is tht fair?

ff13 can be whatvr it wnts, bt 4 me it was bettr thn all othr games this gen and i hd th most fun.

WOULD YOU PLEASE FIX YOUR SPELLING.

When it comes to the point I can't even read your posts without effort, it's time to fix it.



Kimi wa ne tashika ni ano toki watashi no soba ni ita

Itsudatte itsudatte itsudatte

Sugu yoko de waratteita

Nakushitemo torimodosu kimi wo

I will never leave you

lestatdark on 11 June 2010
AkibaFan said:

he is genralising whole genr on 1 game, tht is th worst thng u cn do in a argument. did u make tis thread for flamebait op? 

If i play oblivion (tht buggy game) and say wrpg's are dead is tht fair?

ff13 can be whatvr it wnts, bt 4 me it was bettr thn all othr games this gen and i hd th most fun.

If you consider Oblivion to be buggy, then never get your hands on Daggerfall. It's the best buggy game ever made (my favourite Elder Scrolls), but it can literaly put a grown up man to cry with it's huge bug and glitch list




Current PC Build

CPU - i7 8700K 3.7 GHz (4.7 GHz turbo) 6 cores OC'd to 5.2 GHz with Watercooling (Hydro Series H110i) | MB - Gigabyte Z370 HD3P ATX | Gigabyte GTX 1080ti Gaming OC BLACK 11G (1657 MHz Boost Core / 11010 MHz Memory) | RAM - Corsair DIMM 32GB DDR4, 2400 MHz | PSU - Corsair CX650M (80+ Bronze) 650W | Audio - Asus Essence STX II 7.1 | Monitor - Samsung U28E590D 4K UHD, Freesync, 1 ms, 60 Hz, 28"

SmoothCriminal on 11 June 2010
dtewi said:
SmoothCriminal said:
dtewi said:
SmoothCriminal said:

What I'm saying is why don't we just call them Japanese Adventure Games (because JAGs is a stupid abbreviation i guess :P). By this defintion, there are many RPGs. Modern Warfare is an RPG, Bioshock is an RPG, Dead Space is an RPG, Resident Evil 4/5 are RPGs, Demi-God is an RPG even Counter-Strike could be seen as a limited RPG. 

 

For example, even though S.T.AL.K.E.R. has no points or leveling up, it's still involves much more role-playing than any FF game. When my friends and I play DnD, we forget stats and just play it as we see fit, but it's still and RPG.

 

 

I guess what I'm saying is that JRPGs have been misbranded since their inception, and there's little we can do about it now.

...are you deaf?

Actually yes, I am partially deaf.

 

:P


Then I'll repeat myself:

Separate battles with specialized systems and points to power up. (not any of the games you listed). The games you listed had elements, but not all of them.

And you still focus on its definition.

The definition that you're giving is VERY strict and excludes some of the best JRPGs, Fire Emblem for example. Also, last time I checked, Modern Warfare has experience points, and they level you up. How is that not an RPG? The same happens in Counter-Strike, except it doesn't carry over from match to match, which is why i called it a limited RPG. Both of these games have separate battles (in the form of matches) with a specialized system.

 

I'll continue to focus on the definition, thank you very much. If I can't define things by their definition, then classification means nothing.

If I asked for a peanut butter and grape jelly sandwich, and I got a peanut butter and strawberry jelly sandwich, would they be the same? They both share the connotation as PB&J sandwiches, but they are two very different things (especially since strawberry jelly tastes like garbage). 

 

Kind of a shit comparison I know...