- Natal R&D and Production costs

- Natal will probably be sold at a loss

- Slimmer model R&D costs

- Huge marketing costs for both Natal and Slim model

- Slim won't be that much cheaper to produce, they will have to make it of higher quality that the normal 360's to fix faults such as the RROD

- Microsoft has already lost a lot of money this gen

...Really?

Wow. Rebranding won't make that much of a difference you know. It was the lower price and physically new model that really spurred on PS3 sales, not new boxarts and different styles of commercials. Also, rebranding obviously won't distance the 360 from the RROD as the Xbox 360 still gets the RROD...

Anyway, as I'm told by many 360 fans Natal is made of awesome tech, and so the R&D and production costs must be pretty high. Therefore I either see it failing but making profit, or being very successful and increasing 360 sales at a financial loss.

If MS go aggressively with Natal, and all goes well for them in terms of sales, people are forgetting that Sony could just knock $50 of the PS3 price there and then, and bring other global prices in line with those in the US. With many Sony products now profiting along with the PS3, with the huge games they have coming (software sales, GT5 especially), with production costs falling and with Sony choosing Market Share over profitability (compare the effect a $50 cut would have compared with the losses already made - minimal) this is definitely realistic. 

Consumers win in the end, but Microsoft don't have the ability to streak clear of Sony in this time period and vice versa. The deciding factor will be when the PS3 has another big drop in price. The 360 has no/little price cuts left. It will soon be seen as 'cheap.' Bad image to have.

@ Zen - Microsoft is not bigger than Sony, let alone miles bigger. Has a bigger wallet, but in every other way Sony is bigger. So really, it's hard to say.

I'l quote myself because y'all keep talking about how Natal can lead to Xbox outselling the PS3, but no-one has commented on the possibility as a result of Sony cutting the price, which I think would counter 360's success.

And Zen

Sony's Market Cap has fallen sharply as it's share price has sunk and investors have been turned off due to the recession which hit the electronics industry terribly.

Sony has more employees, more assets, more influence as it is in many more markets, more trading parters and a much larger brand image in the electronics/entertainment industry. Microsoft in basic terms have more money.

I believe they are going to come out with some new looking console, call it the Microsoft Redass or something like that, and you will say, "Oh, it's not an Xbox, so "Xbox" didn't outsell the PS3.

What I'm saying, basically, is this: MS will come out with a rebranded, redesigned console, and whatever the hell that is callled, plus what the original Xbox 360 sells, will outsell the PS3 overall, from the day it launches until new years.

Do you disagree?

I answered all this in my previous post.

Sony also do not have the pulling power they used to have.

They used to be the top in alot of product fields. I havent seen them win any awards for any fields for years. And now they are 3rd in the console race. Consumer sales tell us Sony hasnt got the pull it did have.

I know the UK is very 360 and Wii orientated, but it used to be soley a PS market. People hardly ever mention Playstation here anymore. And I haven't seen a Sony CD player, TV or Car Stereo for a very long time.

I support zenfolder not solid_snake4RD! (you let mgs4 down man  )

Well, its true Sony used to be around the 6th Biggest TNC in the world and has shrunk somewhat, but you really underestimate it. They are very competitive in every product field, and are technically second in the console 'race.' Total sales don't matter as much as rate of sales. This shows that there is more demand for Sony produce basically, and I know I'l get flamed for that, but how does it not? Also, in the GAMING MARKET which is what we are talking about, Sony sells way more consoles, games and accessories than Microsoft. Definitely second if not first in the market (have most studios, products).

Sony does a lot of stuff under the surface which you may not realise as well. One of the biggest semi conductor manufacturers, is 2nd or 3rd in the Music industry and makes a lot of Films. It has Columbia Pictures.

And I haven't seen any CD players in years lol :)

Car stereos - little market, who cares?

And as of late there have been a lot more PS3 adverts on TV than Xbox, and more PS consoles have been sold in the UK. Playstation is not just PS3.

So Sony definitely isn't as big as it used to be (recession has big effect though), but it is still huge. As big as MS? Not sure, but it doesn't really matter.

And well I disagree. A PS3 price cut I think would easily combat the likely expensive Natal.

NOT REALLY

i think 360 can outsell PS3 but not the Wii as SELNOR said

NOW if you want to bet the following then i'm on:

if 360 slim comes out and is $149 or higher

also 360 arcade natal bundle is $199 or higher

also 360 NATAL ELITE is $249 OR HIGHER

and PS3 120gb goes to $249 or higher

PS3 MOVE BUNDLE at $299 or higher

also their will be no XBOX 3 with B/C or PS4 with B/C but just rebranding and redesigning and prices mentioned above

the 360 won't sell more than PS3 Worldwide from their releases to the end of the year

I'll take those bets.  I believe:

360 Slim Arcade could be $149 or lower.

360 Slim Arcade Natal could be $199 or lower

360 Slim Elite could be $199 or lower

360 Slim Elite Natal could be $249 or lower

PS3 base model could be $249 or higher

PS3 base model Move could be $329 or higher

PS3 larger HDD model could be $299 or higher

PS3 larger HDD Move could be $379 or higher