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Forums - General - 54 year old female British teacher may get 40 lashes and jail time in Sudan

Faxanadu said:
So why is burning a American flag in the US illegal and leads to punishment?

Please explain before you trash the Sudan laws.

1. Is it really? I think it's up for debate.

2. Even if it is, you won't get 140 lashes for it. And that's the big point.

I think it's OK that it's illegal to walk with the "DONT WALK" sign showing, but if the punishment is execution, it's NOT OK.



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stranne said:
Faxanadu said:
So why is burning a American flag in the US illegal and leads to punishment?

Please explain before you trash the Sudan laws.

1. Is it really? I think it's up for debate.

2. Even if it is, you won't get 140 lashes for it. And that's the big point.

I think it's OK that it's illegal to walk with the "DONT WALK" sign showing, but if the punishment is execution, it's NOT OK.


There's another important "detail" - burning a flag is probably intentional most of the time, while this teddy bear story sounds more like extreme bad luck. Did you guys read the quotes in the article I pasted? Even Muslim leaders think this story is ridiculous, that should tell some people here something. Of course, it's much easier to repeat unproven stuff such as "it's the laws of the country so she should be lashed".

Here is the quote:

Dr Muhammad Abdul Bari, secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said he was "appalled" at the decision to charge her.

He said: "This is a disgraceful decision and defies common sense.

"There was clearly no intention on the part of the teacher to deliberately insult the Islamic faith."



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NJ5 said:
stranne said:
Faxanadu said:
So why is burning a American flag in the US illegal and leads to punishment?

Please explain before you trash the Sudan laws.

1. Is it really? I think it's up for debate.

2. Even if it is, you won't get 140 lashes for it. And that's the big point.

I think it's OK that it's illegal to walk with the "DONT WALK" sign showing, but if the punishment is execution, it's NOT OK.


There's another important "detail" - burning a flag is probably intentional most of the time, while this teddy bear story sounds more like extreme bad luck.

 


yeah right. not informing yourself about laws concerning religion in Sudan is plain stupid. "But I didnt know walking around the town in a bikini in Riyadh is a crime" 



Any message from Faxanadu is written in good faith but shall neither be binding nor construed as constituting a commitment by Faxanadu except where provided for in a written agreement signed by an authorized representative of Faxanadu. This message is intended for the use of the forum members only.

The views expressed here may be personal and/or offensive and are not necessarily the views of Faxanadu.

Faxanadu said:
 

yeah right. not informing yourself about laws concerning religion in Sudan is plain stupid. "But I didnt know walking around the town in a bikini in Riyadh is a crime"


I for one don't even see evidence that she surely broke the law yet. Someone said that the kids were the ones who voted for the name. We don't even know the details of the law or whether they need to prove intention or not.

Let's try to wait and see what surfaces before starting to judge people on stories we know very little about.

 



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Faxanadu said:
Délio said:
I don`t mind religion having a special seat next to politics, as long as it doesn`t abuse it`s seat. There are many countries in the world that even have more than one official religion and if they can live like that, countries where laws are made based on a single religion have something to learn. Religion should be "used" to exlpore and improve the good side of mankind with love and mutual respect.

This is not the way. This is just intolerance and pure hatred. Sometimes i think that religion only mattered at first and now it`s just about power.

Too funny. When was religion not about power? Care to explain?

all the good old memories come to mind with the popes being the most powerful beings in Europe and kings begging in front of them. Learn history. 


That was the past and things have change since that time. That doesn`t mean it doesn`t happen or it can`t happen ever again, but it`s clearly not the same as it was some centuries ago. Unfortunately, some cases, like the one above, only show how the principles of religion can be misused (speling?).

That`s why i say that sometimes it seems their religion isn`t being offended, but their own pride and vision of themselves.



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@nj5--and studies also prove it--its simple if you know that all you will get is a slap of teh wrist for stealing a cookie will you be hesitant to take that cookie if you want it?---or if you know you will get your hand cut off without hesitation will you still steal that cookie if you want it?



 

Délio said:
Faxanadu said:
Délio said:
I don`t mind religion having a special seat next to politics, as long as it doesn`t abuse it`s seat. There are many countries in the world that even have more than one official religion and if they can live like that, countries where laws are made based on a single religion have something to learn. Religion should be "used" to exlpore and improve the good side of mankind with love and mutual respect.

This is not the way. This is just intolerance and pure hatred. Sometimes i think that religion only mattered at first and now it`s just about power.

Too funny. When was religion not about power? Care to explain?

all the good old memories come to mind with the popes being the most powerful beings in Europe and kings begging in front of them. Learn history.


That was the past and things have change since that time. That doesn`t mean it doesn`t happen or it can`t happen ever again, but it`s clearly not the same as it was some centuries ago. Unfortunately, some cases, like the one above, only show how the principles of religion can be misused (speling?).

That`s why i say that sometimes it seems their religion isn`t being offended, but their own pride and vision of themselves.


Whats the difference? Religion is part of their identity. 



Any message from Faxanadu is written in good faith but shall neither be binding nor construed as constituting a commitment by Faxanadu except where provided for in a written agreement signed by an authorized representative of Faxanadu. This message is intended for the use of the forum members only.

The views expressed here may be personal and/or offensive and are not necessarily the views of Faxanadu.

As a Muslim I am completely disgusted that this event even went this far. As any Muslim I fully respect the Prophet as I do any prophet. I would not name my pets Jesus, Moses, or Muhammad. However:

1. It is a toy. Not a real bear.
2. Its clear from the circumstances, she had no malicious motives. The MUSLIM kids chose the name. They really liked/loved the toy and probably named it Muhammad out of that same love.
3. This is more of a universal Islam issue where extreme view points have corrupted Islamic thought.

Christianity went through its dark ages and with help from Islamic Spain it had a Renaissance. Islam is now in its dark ages where extreme thoughts prevail logic. Hopefully, like Islamic Spain used education and teachings to assist the beginnings of the Renaissance, the Western world will do the same for Islam. Wars and support of the many dictators in the region will only keep this type of extreme ignorance burning.



superchunk said:
As a Muslim I am completely disgusted that this event even went this far. As any Muslim I fully respect the Prophet as I do any prophet. I would not name my pets Jesus, Moses, or Muhammad. However:

1. It is a toy. Not a real bear.
2. Its clear from the circumstances, she had no malicious motives. The MUSLIM kids chose the name. They really liked/loved the toy and probably named it Muhammad out of that same love.
3. This is more of a universal Islam issue where extreme view points have corrupted Islamic thought.

Christianity went through its dark ages and with help from Islamic Spain it had a Renaissance. Islam is now in its dark ages where extreme thoughts prevail logic. Hopefully, like Islamic Spain used education and teachings to assist the beginnings of the Renaissance, the Western world will do the same for Islam. Wars and support of the many dictators in the region will only keep this type of extreme ignorance burning.

Actually on your 2nd point I read that one of the students was named Muhammad, wanted to name it afer hims



superchunk said:
As a Muslim I am completely disgusted that this event even went this far. As any Muslim I fully respect the Prophet as I do any prophet. I would not name my pets Jesus, Moses, or Muhammad. However:

1. It is a toy. Not a real bear.
2. Its clear from the circumstances, she had no malicious motives. The MUSLIM kids chose the name. They really liked/loved the toy and probably named it Muhammad out of that same love.
3. This is more of a universal Islam issue where extreme view points have corrupted Islamic thought.

Christianity went through its dark ages and with help from Islamic Spain it had a Renaissance. Islam is now in its dark ages where extreme thoughts prevail logic. Hopefully, like Islamic Spain used education and teachings to assist the beginnings of the Renaissance, the Western world will do the same for Islam. Wars and support of the many dictators in the region will only keep this type of extreme ignorance burning.

Actually on your 2nd point I read that one of the students was named Muhammad, wanted to name it afer himself and the rest of the class agreed.  So that is how it got it's name.

And to the people on this board who are calling those who disagree with this punishment hypocrits.  We disagree with the sevarity of the punishment, not that fact that she didn't commit a crime. (Although it apears that she didn't even commit the crime, the students did.  But who will pay for that crime)

In related news, apearently extremists are calling for her exacution.  I wonder if they will call for the kids execution when they reilise that the kids were the ones to give the bear it's name.