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Forums - Microsoft - Microsoft and LG partnership gives you 3D gaming on Xbox360

disolitude on 12 May 2010
superchunk said:

 

If you say so. But, you can go buy 3D dvd's that utilize the newer 3D tv's shutter glasses. While they would be slightly less visually than their bluray counterparts, that has more to do with bluray vs dvd than any player. For PS360, its the same. The only reason PS3 was touted as 3D was because its bluray and it was capable of patching the hdmi connection without replacing hardware. It has nothing to do with the cpu or gpu's in the actual machines.


Thats where your point should end. The patch that Sony released doesn't give it any 3d ability or drivers. Its just a patch which tells the TV which 3D format the game is using... Developers still need to make the 3D driver for the game themselves.

360 can do the exact same as developers can tell the TV which 3D the game is using...as seen by Avatar which supports all 3D formats available at the time on both consoles.



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superchunk on 12 May 2010
Solid_Snake4RD said:
superchunk said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
superchunk said:
LOL to anyone who thought only PS3 could do it... lol, you know your out there.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, PS3's 3D (as all home 3D at this point) is a huge flop of shit and needs to be skipped by the consumers. The manufacturers need to realize we won't pay $100's for each pair of glasses just to watch 3D at home.

If costs prevent glassless 60" tvs, then at least utilized the passive system theaters use. Worked just fine for Avatar and every other 3D movie and would only cost a few bucks, if that for each pair of glasses. Then I wouldn't mind my 4yr old wearing them or buying 20 for the big sporting events.

wtf are you talking abt?

 

Only PS3 can do 3D IN THE CONSOLES SECTION.

 

This 3D that LG and MS are touting is not real 3D production.This is only how 3DTV's can convert 3D in 3D,they can do this with any media.Even with  PS1.

 

Originally developed and converted 3D will have big differences

If you say so. But, you can go buy 3D dvd's that utilize the newer 3D tv's shutter glasses. While they would be slightly less visually than their bluray counterparts, that has more to do with bluray vs dvd than any player. For PS360, its the same. The only reason PS3 was touted as 3D was because its bluray and it was capable of patching the hdmi connection without replacing hardware. It has nothing to do with the cpu or gpu's in the actual machines.

i never said it was about the CPU/GPU,etc

 

just that 360 has HDMI 1.2 which can carry lesser data.

True, but that doesn't prevent it from doing 3D. Just not in the same fashion as PS3. There will be 3D games on 360 as designed to be 3D.

But that is really besides the point. My main issue is with how 3D is being approached in the home. I absolutely hate the current setup.



Solid_Snake4RD on 12 May 2010
selnor said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
disolitude said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
Lord Flashheart said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
superchunk said:
LOL to anyone who thought only PS3 could do it... lol, you know your out there.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, PS3's 3D (as all home 3D at this point) is a huge flop of shit and needs to be skipped by the consumers. The manufacturers need to realize we won't pay $100's for each pair of glasses just to watch 3D at home.

If costs prevent glassless 60" tvs, then at least utilized the passive system theaters use. Worked just fine for Avatar and every other 3D movie and would only cost a few bucks, if that for each pair of glasses. Then I wouldn't mind my 4yr old wearing them or buying 20 for the big sporting events.

wtf are you talking abt?

 

Only PS3 can do 3D IN THE CONSOLES SECTION.

 

This 3D that LG and MS are touting is not real 3D production.This is only how 3DTV's can convert 3D in 3D,they can do this with any media.Even with  PS1.

 

Originally developed and converted 3D will have big differences

I refer you to Avatar and me at Gadget show.

Looked like real 3d on an xbox to me.

wat?

 

real 3D from 360 is possible on 360 but with HDMI 1.2,it would be SD or lower.

PS3 has HCMI 1.3 thats why they can output 3D with the existing graphics

Don't post false info...

Xbox360 has HDMI 1.2 which does 1080p @ 60 frames per second = 720p @ 30 frames per eye.

Go check what Wipeout HD and motostorm will be running at when running in 3D then say "Only PS3 can do 3D"

Also, go check what res Avatar is running on 360 in 3D...here is a hint...its 1080p @ 60fps / 2 eyes. Except it uses checkerboard format (as well as side by side and interlaced) which at 720p looks better than frame sequential format that PS3 will most likely do at 720p.

Bottom line PS3 will not get a retail game to run above 720p @ 30 FPS which can be easily done by 360.

I'm talking about 360 doing 3D in HD ready 720p not being possible not saying 360 can't do HD.

 

 

PS3 can do 1080i 3D easily.


So Corrine saying 3d gaming on 360 will be HD and with Natal is false. She has some of the most experience in engine and hardware design in the console business. If the DX11 creator says it is gonna happen. I believe her.

yeah but she din't say that 360 will put out Gears like refined titles with HD 3D.She just mentioned 3D HD which can be applied to games with lesser refinement.

 

HDMI 1.2 will pose a problem in one way or the other.Also existing 360 games are 3D HD through any 3D TV's out there as they convert it.She could be not meaing directly.

 

The best is to wait and compare high quality titles like GT5 and whatever 360 3D has to offer.



superchunk on 12 May 2010
disolitude said:
superchunk said:

 

If you say so. But, you can go buy 3D dvd's that utilize the newer 3D tv's shutter glasses. While they would be slightly less visually than their bluray counterparts, that has more to do with bluray vs dvd than any player. For PS360, its the same. The only reason PS3 was touted as 3D was because its bluray and it was capable of patching the hdmi connection without replacing hardware. It has nothing to do with the cpu or gpu's in the actual machines.


Thats where your point should end. The patch that Sony released doesn't give it any 3d ability or drivers. Its just a patch which tells the TV which 3D format the game is using... Developers still need to make the 3D driver for the game themselves.

360 can do the exact same as developers can tell the TV which 3D the game is using...as seen by Avatar which supports all 3D formats available at the time on both consoles.

Are you sure on that? From what I read the hdmi upgrade was for a distinct 3D data channel. From what I've read, most devices cannot be upgraded as most would require actual chip differences in their hdmi connection, whereas PS3 already had the better connection, thus it could be patched via software.



disolitude on 12 May 2010
Solid_Snake4RD said:
disolitude said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:

 

I'm talking about 360 doing 3D in HD ready 720p not being possible not saying 360 can't do HD.

 

 

PS3 can do 1080i 3D easily.


You are not making sense.

What is stopping 360 from doing 720p 3D? HDMI1.2 (no)? Processing power of the console (its about same as PS3)?

Especially considering Avatar runs at 720p in 3D on 360...and it runs smoother than on PS3 which has the frame rate drop to 20 fps per eye in some situations.

Also 1080i = 720p

'Especially considering Avatar runs at 720p in 3D on 360...and it runs smoother than on PS3 which has the frame rate drop to 20 fps per eye in some situations.'

We all know how good the game was.Devlopers again and again give PS3 the inderior version.So i don't wanna discuss that point.

 

It will be insteresting to see how good exlcuive 3D titles compare to each other.And i'm talking about refined games not like AVATR

 

'Processing power console same as the PS3' - don't even want to star an argument on that.

 

And yes HDMI 1.2 will be factor in 3D 360 be inferior to 3D PS3 as it just cannot take as much data through the pipes as HDMI 1.3.

 

360 can do 720p with 3D but it will have severe consequences on the game overall look,the data limitance of HDMI 1.2 will play a factor.Most likely 360 will produce a lower than 720p 3D.

 

if 3D 720p was possible on 360 high level game then PS3 could do 1080p 3D as Sony are touting it to be.

 

Anyways it would be best that we wait for the fall releases and then compare,GT5 3D will be one to watch.

I don't know if you are just avoiding the actual numbers or just joking around.

HDMI 1.2 supports 1080p/60 Hz. That 3.96 Gbit/s of video bandwidth... This is perfectly enough of projecting 720p resolution at 30 FPS to each eye.

You are right in saying that PS3 can do 1080p @ 30 fps per eye with HDMI 1.3...but other than a few simple PSN games, PS3 currently does not have a game that is running at 1080p @ 60fps...even GT5 won't do that, without 3D. So PS3 can not do 1080p 3D cause of lack of processing power...

Also, Avatar actually wasn't as terrible as you think. Its about on par with Lost planet 2... but thats besides the point. We don't even know if 360 will go 3D...your argument here is that 360 can not do HD 3D technically which is clearly can and already has done.

 



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Solid_Snake4RD on 12 May 2010
disolitude said:
superchunk said:

 

If you say so. But, you can go buy 3D dvd's that utilize the newer 3D tv's shutter glasses. While they would be slightly less visually than their bluray counterparts, that has more to do with bluray vs dvd than any player. For PS360, its the same. The only reason PS3 was touted as 3D was because its bluray and it was capable of patching the hdmi connection without replacing hardware. It has nothing to do with the cpu or gpu's in the actual machines.


Thats where your point should end. The patch that Sony released doesn't give it any 3d ability or drivers. Its just a patch which tells the TV which 3D format the game is using... Developers still need to make the 3D driver for the game themselves.

360 can do the exact same as developers can tell the TV which 3D the game is using...as seen by Avatar which supports all 3D formats available at the time on both consoles.

yeah i understand that and agree with you on that.

 

but the amout of 3DTV required to put a refined game IN 3D will require much more DATA transfer where HDMI1.2 goes down.Avatar was a poorly executed game.

 

lets compare GT5 3D HD with 360 3D games



Solid_Snake4RD on 12 May 2010
superchunk said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
superchunk said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
superchunk said:
LOL to anyone who thought only PS3 could do it... lol, you know your out there.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, PS3's 3D (as all home 3D at this point) is a huge flop of shit and needs to be skipped by the consumers. The manufacturers need to realize we won't pay $100's for each pair of glasses just to watch 3D at home.

If costs prevent glassless 60" tvs, then at least utilized the passive system theaters use. Worked just fine for Avatar and every other 3D movie and would only cost a few bucks, if that for each pair of glasses. Then I wouldn't mind my 4yr old wearing them or buying 20 for the big sporting events.

wtf are you talking abt?

 

Only PS3 can do 3D IN THE CONSOLES SECTION.

 

This 3D that LG and MS are touting is not real 3D production.This is only how 3DTV's can convert 3D in 3D,they can do this with any media.Even with  PS1.

 

Originally developed and converted 3D will have big differences

If you say so. But, you can go buy 3D dvd's that utilize the newer 3D tv's shutter glasses. While they would be slightly less visually than their bluray counterparts, that has more to do with bluray vs dvd than any player. For PS360, its the same. The only reason PS3 was touted as 3D was because its bluray and it was capable of patching the hdmi connection without replacing hardware. It has nothing to do with the cpu or gpu's in the actual machines.

i never said it was about the CPU/GPU,etc

 

just that 360 has HDMI 1.2 which can carry lesser data.

True, but that doesn't prevent it from doing 3D. Just not in the same fashion as PS3. There will be 3D games on 360 as designed to be 3D.

But that is really besides the point. My main issue is with how 3D is being approached in the home. I absolutely hate the current setup.

yeah i trully agree with you here.I never said 360 won't do 3D just that HDMI 1.2 limits its extent.



disolitude on 12 May 2010
superchunk said:
disolitude said:
superchunk said:

 

If you say so. But, you can go buy 3D dvd's that utilize the newer 3D tv's shutter glasses. While they would be slightly less visually than their bluray counterparts, that has more to do with bluray vs dvd than any player. For PS360, its the same. The only reason PS3 was touted as 3D was because its bluray and it was capable of patching the hdmi connection without replacing hardware. It has nothing to do with the cpu or gpu's in the actual machines.


Thats where your point should end. The patch that Sony released doesn't give it any 3d ability or drivers. Its just a patch which tells the TV which 3D format the game is using... Developers still need to make the 3D driver for the game themselves.

360 can do the exact same as developers can tell the TV which 3D the game is using...as seen by Avatar which supports all 3D formats available at the time on both consoles.

Are you sure on that? From what I read the hdmi upgrade was for a distinct 3D data channel. From what I've read, most devices cannot be upgraded as most would require actual chip differences in their hdmi connection, whereas PS3 already had the better connection, thus it could be patched via software.

the only major difference between HDMI 1.3 and 1.4 is that 1.4 has the ability to tell the TV automatically which 3D format the source is using. These new 3D TVs (samsung ones I've seen at least) support every 3D format available to date. So like checkerboard, line interlaced, side by side etc...and the all mighty full 1080p frame sequential (the one 360 cant do).

The PS3 update is a software update which enables the PS3 to tell these new TVs which 3D format the games are using. The developers may decide to include the format best suited for the game. If the game is simple they can do frame sequential @ full 1080p. If its a more complex game they can use interlaced 720p res (wipeout HD possibly) So user will just start the game, select 3D and game is running in the 3D format devs wanted it to.

With the 360 the devs have to have an option menu which lets users choose which 3d format they want to use. the 360 can not tell the TV automatically which format the game is using... That is the only thing the 3D update provided to the PS3



disolitude on 12 May 2010
Solid_Snake4RD said:
disolitude said:
superchunk said:

 

If you say so. But, you can go buy 3D dvd's that utilize the newer 3D tv's shutter glasses. While they would be slightly less visually than their bluray counterparts, that has more to do with bluray vs dvd than any player. For PS360, its the same. The only reason PS3 was touted as 3D was because its bluray and it was capable of patching the hdmi connection without replacing hardware. It has nothing to do with the cpu or gpu's in the actual machines.


Thats where your point should end. The patch that Sony released doesn't give it any 3d ability or drivers. Its just a patch which tells the TV which 3D format the game is using... Developers still need to make the 3D driver for the game themselves.

360 can do the exact same as developers can tell the TV which 3D the game is using...as seen by Avatar which supports all 3D formats available at the time on both consoles.

yeah i understand that and agree with you on that.

 

but the amout of 3DTV required to put a refined game IN 3D will require much more DATA transfer where HDMI1.2 goes down.Avatar was a poorly executed game.

 

lets compare GT5 3D HD with 360 3D games

Sounds good.

Avatar is pushing 1920x1080 @ 60 hz in 3D

The gameplay may not be as good as GT5 but we are speaking strictly technically here. Lets see if GT5 can do 1920x1080 @ 60 hz...



Solid_Snake4RD on 12 May 2010
disolitude said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
disolitude said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:

 

I'm talking about 360 doing 3D in HD ready 720p not being possible not saying 360 can't do HD.

 

 

PS3 can do 1080i 3D easily.


You are not making sense.

What is stopping 360 from doing 720p 3D? HDMI1.2 (no)? Processing power of the console (its about same as PS3)?

Especially considering Avatar runs at 720p in 3D on 360...and it runs smoother than on PS3 which has the frame rate drop to 20 fps per eye in some situations.

Also 1080i = 720p

'Especially considering Avatar runs at 720p in 3D on 360...and it runs smoother than on PS3 which has the frame rate drop to 20 fps per eye in some situations.'

We all know how good the game was.Devlopers again and again give PS3 the inderior version.So i don't wanna discuss that point.

 

It will be insteresting to see how good exlcuive 3D titles compare to each other.And i'm talking about refined games not like AVATR

 

'Processing power console same as the PS3' - don't even want to star an argument on that.

 

And yes HDMI 1.2 will be factor in 3D 360 be inferior to 3D PS3 as it just cannot take as much data through the pipes as HDMI 1.3.

 

360 can do 720p with 3D but it will have severe consequences on the game overall look,the data limitance of HDMI 1.2 will play a factor.Most likely 360 will produce a lower than 720p 3D.

 

if 3D 720p was possible on 360 high level game then PS3 could do 1080p 3D as Sony are touting it to be.

 

Anyways it would be best that we wait for the fall releases and then compare,GT5 3D will be one to watch.

I don't know if you are just avoiding the actual numbers or just joking around.

HDMI 1.2 supports 1080p/60 Hz. That 3.96 Gbit/s of video bandwidth... This is perfectly enough of projecting 720p resolution at 30 FPS to each eye.

You are right in saying that PS3 can do 1080p @ 30 fps per eye with HDMI 1.3...but other than a few simple PSN games, PS3 currently does not have a game that is running at 1080p @ 60fps...even GT5 won't do that, without 3D. So PS3 can not do 1080p 3D cause of lack of processing power...

Also, Avatar actually wasn't as terrible as you think. Its about on par with Lost planet 2... but thats besides the point. We don't even know if 360 will go 3D...your argument here is that 360 can not do HD 3D technically which is clearly can and already has done.

 

firstly lost planet 2 sucked,i loved the first one with snowy environment.Plus this was  heack glitchy and irritating.Avatar was also a bad game and i din't feel much 3D atall.Very low quality

 

360 at 720p is possible but most likely will be compromised for high quality games like Gears.But anyways i don't think MS will push 3d MUCH.