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Forums - General - Something I thought of about tax cuts....

Akvod on 16 April 2010
mrstickball said:
Akvod said:
famousringo said:
mrstickball said:
Akvod -

The problem is that even *if* you agree with that logic (and I don't. Grover Cleveland and many other presidents before him dealt with recessions without deficits), it still assumes that when out of the recession, your paying off the deficit. We haven't paid off the deficit since we started down this dark road in the 70's.

That's where it falls apart, all right. Countercyclical budgeting is a great idea, but organizations—both corporate and government—have a hard time keeping their financial goals long-term. Everybody loves government spending when times are tough, but when times are good and they see a surplus, they want tax cuts rather than repayment.

It is possible to have a government that will say no, and actually slay the deficit and start repaying debt, but there's a huge amount of political pressure not to do so. I mean who wouldn't want to have a credit card that you can make your kids pay off?

I mean, that's what we have to deal with a popular government =/ It's a trade off between democracy and political insularity.

Contrary to popular statements, America isn't a democracy. Since we're a federal republic, we should have enough of a balance between state and federal powers to ensure some of this foolishness doesn't happen.

Republicanism=/=Federalism

Even with a Republic, you still have the same problem of popular government and politics.



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mrstickball on 16 April 2010

Oh, I don't disagree about that. However, with a federal republic, the notion is that the power is broken up more, and is therefore less susceptible to the populace voting for themselves more money. That was something the founders knew would be a problem, and made many statements against.

Unfortunately, it seems that they were totally right on how it was to play out when we could vote more money for ourselves, in the way of social programs.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

TheRealMafoo on 16 April 2010

This idea of "your friend" running government is a relatively new idea. John Adams, the single greatest influence in the US becoming a country, and one of the greatest presidents in our history, was not widely liked as a person.

Back then, you elected the guy you thought would do the best job, not the guy you wanted as your buddy. Times I realize, have changed a lot.



Akvod on 16 April 2010
TheRealMafoo said:
This idea of "your friend" running government is a relatively new idea. John Adams, the single greatest influence in the US becoming a country, and one of the greatest presidents in our history, was not widely liked as a person.

Back then, you elected the guy you thought would do the best job, not the guy you wanted as your buddy. Times I realize, have changed a lot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_jackson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism



NinjaguyDan on 16 April 2010

If the tax cuts for the wealthy work so well, then why aren't we driving on streets paved in gold by now?
I've heard that bullshit for the last thirty years, "cut taxes on the rich and the economy will grow".
WHEN? WHERE? HOW!?! I have yet to see that happen.



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hobbit on 16 April 2010
mrstickball said:
Akvod said:
famousringo said:
mrstickball said:
Akvod -

The problem is that even *if* you agree with that logic (and I don't. Grover Cleveland and many other presidents before him dealt with recessions without deficits), it still assumes that when out of the recession, your paying off the deficit. We haven't paid off the deficit since we started down this dark road in the 70's.

That's where it falls apart, all right. Countercyclical budgeting is a great idea, but organizations—both corporate and government—have a hard time keeping their financial goals long-term. Everybody loves government spending when times are tough, but when times are good and they see a surplus, they want tax cuts rather than repayment.

It is possible to have a government that will say no, and actually slay the deficit and start repaying debt, but there's a huge amount of political pressure not to do so. I mean who wouldn't want to have a credit card that you can make your kids pay off?

I mean, that's what we have to deal with a popular government =/ It's a trade off between democracy and political insularity.

Contrary to popular statements, America isn't a democracy. Since we're a federal republic, we should have enough of a balance between state and federal powers to ensure some of this foolishness doesn't happen.

it use to be that way. The 17th amendment was the 2nd worst thing to happen to this country.

If the tax cuts for the wealthy work so well, then why aren't we driving on streets paved in gold by now?
I've heard that bullshit for the last thirty years, "cut taxes on the rich and the economy will grow".
WHEN? WHERE? HOW!?! I have yet to see that happen.


lol Ireland? Usa sense the reagan cuts? go read a history book please.



mrstickball on 16 April 2010
NinjaguyDan said:
If the tax cuts for the wealthy work so well, then why aren't we driving on streets paved in gold by now?
I've heard that bullshit for the last thirty years, "cut taxes on the rich and the economy will grow".
WHEN? WHERE? HOW!?! I have yet to see that happen.

I think you are the only one to assume that tax cuts should equate to driving on gold streets. If soaking the rich worked (on the opposite end), then Cuba and China should be made of solid gold, and North Korea should be the workers' paradise, shouldn't it?

Rather, the United States' relative stand to other countries quality of living has been been fairly strong after the massive tax cuts during the 80's.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

NinjaguyDan on 16 April 2010
mrstickball said:
NinjaguyDan said:
If the tax cuts for the wealthy work so well, then why aren't we driving on streets paved in gold by now?
I've heard that bullshit for the last thirty years, "cut taxes on the rich and the economy will grow".
WHEN? WHERE? HOW!?! I have yet to see that happen.

I think you are the only one to assume that tax cuts should equate to driving on gold streets. If soaking the rich worked (on the opposite end), then Cuba and China should be made of solid gold, and North Korea should be the workers' paradise, shouldn't it?

Rather, the United States' relative stand to other countries quality of living has been been fairly strong after the massive tax cuts during the 80's.

Apparently, you are oblivious to the subtle humor contained within my hyperbole.

The are only two things that trickle down economics gave us, a growing debt and a shrinking middle class.



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toastboy44562 on 16 April 2010
mrstickball said:

So, I was watching Fox News


stopped there.

 

no seriously i think your onto something here



NinjaguyDan on 16 April 2010
toastboy44562 said:
mrstickball said:

So, I was watching Fox News


stopped there.

 

no seriously i think your onto something here

That's all you need to know.



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