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Forums - Sony - Sony says sorry for other os take down

slowmo on 10 April 2010
Kasz216 said:
greenmedic88 said:
Kasz216 said:
greenmedic88 said:
Kasz216 said:

It was in the best intrests of the majority to remove a feature the majority never used and therefore were never at risk of anything... by screwing over a minority of people who used this and who are the only people effected.

Yeah... ok Sony.

People who think Sony doing this is a positve need a major reality check.

Hell this isn't even going to slow down piracy, if anything it will probably lead to a piracy solution quicker because Sony decided to anatagonize people who use Linux on the PS3... aka hackers... and also basically threw down a gauntlet to a bunch of other people.

Hardly matters.

First, there are no PS3s being produced that run Linux.

Second, the vast majority of owners who have an older PS3 will simply update the firmware with no regard for the loss of Linux as they, like the vast majority of PS3 owners, had no intention of ever installing Linux.

Add to these the older PS3s that are no longer working.

Ultimately, you're left with a shrinking number of consoles that are capable of having a hardware hack installed on an older console that can run Linux.

Net result: it makes a slightly larger niche market for old PS3s among the small community of users determined to play pirated games.

When found, this solution does nothing for the vast majority of PS3 owners who don't have an older PS3, aren't running Linux, don't have the hardware modifications made to their console and of course the simplest part of playing pirated games: don't have a PC with a BD burner and a stack of BD media.

You're left with a pretty insignificant number of potential pirates who have to leap through quite a few hoops just to play pirated games.

So someone gets a working solution to play pirated games on a software and hardware hacked PS3. Congrats. Really; congrats. It will have taken almost four years. The only benefit for the general public wlll be the inevitable Youtube videos displaying the achievement since it won't help all but a tiny niche of people who are very dedicated to playing pirated games.

SCE isn't concerned with this tiny niche of people that will go through more trouble than it's worth simply because they can.

They're concerned with general piracy among regular consumers who wouldn't have to do anything more than pay their local hardware hacker $50 to install a mod chip and supply them with $10 burned games.

Actually no.  I mean people will work to find a way to hack the actual PS3.  Or even find a way to reset and/or customize the firmware like PSP.


So instead of only old phat systems being able to pirate for the small amount of people who want to find an old PS3 to pirate... they open it up to where every PS3 may end up being pirateable.

Other OS was actually a good diversion to keep the hackers on.

As soon as it happens, and we see current production PS3s running pirated games, feel free to make a thread about it.

By the time we see a $50 mod chip and $10 BD burned games, the PS3 will be in its twilight years.

I'm not holding my breath and neither should you.

Couldn't I say the same to you?  Afterall there is NOT an actual hack that lets you play PS3 games via Other OS yet.

Which in of itself doesn't get around the fact that Sony is taking a feature away from the innocent that was already paid for, simply because someone else may abuse it.

I predict inside of 3 months you will have a Slim PS3 running Other OS at least, Custom firmware will be being worked on now as we speak for the Slims.  Sony really have just given every hacker a huge boost in motive for little if any gain.



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Alby_da_Wolf on 10 April 2010
jneul said:
Kasz216 said:
jneul said:
Kasz216 said:
jneul said:
Kasz216 said:
jneul said:
Kasz216 said:
jneul said:
huh I am chilled, lol, I am backing up Sony here they said sorry and explained it is for the greater good, I thought it would be better if a sony fan posted this instead of just a random person, lol

So all it takes is for someone to claim something "is for the greater good" and your fine with it.  Nevermind Sony said it was for security reasons only.

They've never once actually mentioned piracy to my knowledge.  So, how is this for the greater good for removing it because of security issues... that the majority won't ever expierence because they won't even use it?

Not to mention... security problems with Linux on the cell?  Is there even a MORE obscure thing to design a security exploit for?  If they don't bother with Apple why would they bother with this?

Unfortuantely I know so much more about this than you think, GeoHotz went to alot of trouble just to get this far, after thinking about it really it would not surprise me how much futher hackers would be willing to go, do not under-estimate them

I do not just believe Sony, I know alot of things, unfortunately, I am a programmer I can program in c#, c++, Java, Visual Basic and Assembly language, I could develop some nasty applications if I put my mind to it, but I am not like that.

Believe sony... about what?  Once again, this security issue doesn't effect ANYBODY who doesn't have other OS installed?  Yes?

So... uh... what's your greater good? 

Stopping the phat PS3's from pirating?  That's not the greater good... that's Sony having left a door wide open that they should of known would of been a probelm when they were designing it.  Period.

They didn't they put it in.  I feel sorry for Sony, but it's wrong of them to remove a feature they sold the product with.

right you do know developing HD games cost a lot of money, it is hard for a deveoper to make a profit in recent times, hence the reason why alot of them are going multi, now stop being silly please, this is for the greater good, piracy is bad.

Finally if you enable piracy on the ps3 via custom firmware I am betting you will have to overide it's security features, this will leave the door open to attacks such as stealing personal information, I am sorry but I think you are living in pixie land if you think people will not try and take advantage of newer abilities on PS3

People don't bother on Linux or Apple... why woud they bother on PS3... also... if pirates get their information stolen by hackers, fuck them they're pirates.

As for the "HD games cost a lot of money"  Sony should of thought of that before they put other OS in to begin with... not to mention there aren't THAT many phat PS3's out there where it should make a difference.  Let alone phat PS3's belonging to people who are going to want to pirate.

People who pirate a lot tend to not buy a system until the way to pirate has been created since you know... they don't want to pay for games.

 

The end result would be a small amount of hackers buying up old PS3s.  Hardly catastrophic... and even if it was... it's Sony's fault to begin with.

yeah right, that's so right George Hotz didn't bother with PS3, it wasn't really hacked, it's all Sony's fault / sarcasm

you are contradicting yourself because you are mad at Sony, it's funny how everyone is jumping on the hate wagon now the feature is gone, this reminds me of BC compatibility back in 2007, all of them hypocrites, never bought a ps3 with BC then when sony removed it to make it cheaper, so you all could afford it, the irony :(:(

Did George Hotz hack the PS3 so it downloads viruses on other peoples PS3s?  Because if not... this doesn't "help the majority of playstation owners".

Sony's conetention was that this caused security issues for the majority of people.  Which you know... it doesn't.

Only those who download other OS in the first place... and who WANT the feature there.

 

Sony removed the feature for one reason it was good for SONY.  They took a feature away from people who use it, that people paid for, soley for their own bottom line.

That's reprehensible.

so you think it's wrong to protect people who may want to have custom firmware from things like viruses and spyware etc as well?? Anyway any pirates should be banned, if you want to keep other os it is optional, seriously you have spun this way out of context if you are that bothered about linux either do the following:

A. get a cheap pc that runs linux

B. keep other os and buy a ps3 slim(if you are bothered about gaming as well).

I am sure if you get some money back it will help you out either way. I admit it is not the fairest solution, but seriously, I do understand why they are doing this!!

First things first: welcome back!

Second, Sony could deal with this issue in a different and fair way: patching the leak and kicking out of PSN actual pirates and cheaters.

Just think about this: had GeoHot hacked BD movie playback or gaming itself, instead, would Sony have removed them?



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jneul on 11 April 2010
Alby_da_Wolf said:
jneul said:
Kasz216 said:
jneul said:
Kasz216 said:
jneul said:
Kasz216 said:
jneul said:
Kasz216 said:
jneul said:
huh I am chilled, lol, I am backing up Sony here they said sorry and explained it is for the greater good, I thought it would be better if a sony fan posted this instead of just a random person, lol

So all it takes is for someone to claim something "is for the greater good" and your fine with it.  Nevermind Sony said it was for security reasons only.

They've never once actually mentioned piracy to my knowledge.  So, how is this for the greater good for removing it because of security issues... that the majority won't ever expierence because they won't even use it?

Not to mention... security problems with Linux on the cell?  Is there even a MORE obscure thing to design a security exploit for?  If they don't bother with Apple why would they bother with this?

Unfortuantely I know so much more about this than you think, GeoHotz went to alot of trouble just to get this far, after thinking about it really it would not surprise me how much futher hackers would be willing to go, do not under-estimate them

I do not just believe Sony, I know alot of things, unfortunately, I am a programmer I can program in c#, c++, Java, Visual Basic and Assembly language, I could develop some nasty applications if I put my mind to it, but I am not like that.

Believe sony... about what?  Once again, this security issue doesn't effect ANYBODY who doesn't have other OS installed?  Yes?

So... uh... what's your greater good? 

Stopping the phat PS3's from pirating?  That's not the greater good... that's Sony having left a door wide open that they should of known would of been a probelm when they were designing it.  Period.

They didn't they put it in.  I feel sorry for Sony, but it's wrong of them to remove a feature they sold the product with.

right you do know developing HD games cost a lot of money, it is hard for a deveoper to make a profit in recent times, hence the reason why alot of them are going multi, now stop being silly please, this is for the greater good, piracy is bad.

Finally if you enable piracy on the ps3 via custom firmware I am betting you will have to overide it's security features, this will leave the door open to attacks such as stealing personal information, I am sorry but I think you are living in pixie land if you think people will not try and take advantage of newer abilities on PS3

People don't bother on Linux or Apple... why woud they bother on PS3... also... if pirates get their information stolen by hackers, fuck them they're pirates.

As for the "HD games cost a lot of money"  Sony should of thought of that before they put other OS in to begin with... not to mention there aren't THAT many phat PS3's out there where it should make a difference.  Let alone phat PS3's belonging to people who are going to want to pirate.

People who pirate a lot tend to not buy a system until the way to pirate has been created since you know... they don't want to pay for games.

 

The end result would be a small amount of hackers buying up old PS3s.  Hardly catastrophic... and even if it was... it's Sony's fault to begin with.

yeah right, that's so right George Hotz didn't bother with PS3, it wasn't really hacked, it's all Sony's fault / sarcasm

you are contradicting yourself because you are mad at Sony, it's funny how everyone is jumping on the hate wagon now the feature is gone, this reminds me of BC compatibility back in 2007, all of them hypocrites, never bought a ps3 with BC then when sony removed it to make it cheaper, so you all could afford it, the irony :(:(

Did George Hotz hack the PS3 so it downloads viruses on other peoples PS3s?  Because if not... this doesn't "help the majority of playstation owners".

Sony's conetention was that this caused security issues for the majority of people.  Which you know... it doesn't.

Only those who download other OS in the first place... and who WANT the feature there.

 

Sony removed the feature for one reason it was good for SONY.  They took a feature away from people who use it, that people paid for, soley for their own bottom line.

That's reprehensible.

so you think it's wrong to protect people who may want to have custom firmware from things like viruses and spyware etc as well?? Anyway any pirates should be banned, if you want to keep other os it is optional, seriously you have spun this way out of context if you are that bothered about linux either do the following:

A. get a cheap pc that runs linux

B. keep other os and buy a ps3 slim(if you are bothered about gaming as well).

I am sure if you get some money back it will help you out either way. I admit it is not the fairest solution, but seriously, I do understand why they are doing this!!

First things first: welcome back!

Second, Sony could deal with this issue in a different and fair way: patching the leak and kicking out of PSN actual pirates and cheaters.

Just think about this: had GeoHot hacked BD movie playback or gaming itself, instead, would Sony have removed them?

thanks:):) anyway no Sony would not do that(I Hope), as linux was not an advetised selling point, it was just listed as a feature, which might I add linux does not cost money and did not come pre-installed on your ps3, where-as things like games, blu-ray they cannot remove as Sony advertises as selling points.

Just remember piracy was a huge problem on PS2, the ability to play DVD's or games was never removed, I know they have re-structured, but they would lose all of their user base if they was to make this move,.



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Alby_da_Wolf on 11 April 2010
jneul said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
jneul said:
Kasz216 said:

 

[...]

Did George Hotz hack the PS3 so it downloads viruses on other peoples PS3s?  Because if not... this doesn't "help the majority of playstation owners".

Sony's conetention was that this caused security issues for the majority of people.  Which you know... it doesn't.

Only those who download other OS in the first place... and who WANT the feature there.

 

Sony removed the feature for one reason it was good for SONY.  They took a feature away from people who use it, that people paid for, soley for their own bottom line.

That's reprehensible.

so you think it's wrong to protect people who may want to have custom firmware from things like viruses and spyware etc as well?? Anyway any pirates should be banned, if you want to keep other os it is optional, seriously you have spun this way out of context if you are that bothered about linux either do the following:

A. get a cheap pc that runs linux

B. keep other os and buy a ps3 slim(if you are bothered about gaming as well).

I am sure if you get some money back it will help you out either way. I admit it is not the fairest solution, but seriously, I do understand why they are doing this!!

First things first: welcome back!

Second, Sony could deal with this issue in a different and fair way: patching the leak and kicking out of PSN actual pirates and cheaters.

Just think about this: had GeoHot hacked BD movie playback or gaming itself, instead, would Sony have removed them?

thanks:):) anyway no Sony would not do that(I Hope), as linux was not an advetised selling point, it was just listed as a feature, which might I add linux does not cost money and did not come pre-installed on your ps3, where-as things like games, blu-ray they cannot remove as Sony advertises as selling points.

Just remember piracy was a huge problem on PS2, the ability to play DVD's or games was never removed, I know they have re-structured, but they would lose all of their user base if they was to make this move,.

The only thing in Sony's favour is that they didn't preinstall Linux or any other optional OS on top of the OtherOS feature, but for the law every advertised feature is equal, it's up to the buyers to decide which features are more or less important for them. The least Sony can expect, at least here in EU, is to be sentenced to give a partial refund.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!   


Kenoid on 11 April 2010

Wow, but nothing really done here



                                  

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hollywood85 on 11 April 2010
slowmo said:
ultima said:
slowmo said:
Once again people post ignorantly completely missing the point of why this was such a bad thing to happen. If you don't care about this issue thats fine but stop downplaying this issue for those who do care. The people running damage control are causing this issue to go on and on because of their poor attitude.

What do you use it for anyway? You keep saying it's a big deal; I personally tried it out, but got rid of it in about a month. Not only is it super slow, but it's a pain to get everything working. Any computer nowadays would outperform PS3's linux.

 

To be honest it is indeed slow and its practicality has never been great (not many apps are written for PPC's obviously) but I cannot in good consience support any companies decision to shaft the consumer and blatantly breach their rights in order to look after themselves.  If you think its fine for Sony to remove features that you paid for then thats fair enough, personally I think you're all stark raving bonkers putting some misguided concept of loyalty ahead of your rights as a consumer.

that's not the point, the point is Sony took this away for a reason, and would not have if it wasn't for that reason............... why the hell AREN'T getting mad at the reason is the point. you do know if he hadn't opened his mouth you'd still have access to the feature YOU NEVER USE!!!!

if you really cared for other os it's the damned hacker you should be pissed off at. (LIKE OBVIOUSLY) not Sony, the company fully well knows what hacking and piarting is capable of (psp) the guy openly stated he HACKED the ps3........ you have to be one naive person to think this hack wouldn't eventually open doors for much worse things. I mean geodouch wanted fame, at the expense of everyone else. and we eventually paid the price for it, and now people like you are encouraging this guy to go further.... which would lead to even more problems.... not for him but for this rest of us.

If I knew this hacker fag I'd sooo "convince" him to stop hacking and if he do to keep that shit to himself. that way he can hack all he want and I can still have all my features imo. win win

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

but whatever to get Sony back as the bad guy I guess......... I mean, we all remember the APOCOLYPS3!!!!!! yeah the death and doom of ALL ps3's worth of hundreads of articles on every major web site, front page news(literally)...................... for a problem that effected less that half of the ps3 users and fixed it's'self within 24 hours. *sigh*



slowmo on 11 April 2010
hollywood85 said:
slowmo said:
ultima said:
slowmo said:
Once again people post ignorantly completely missing the point of why this was such a bad thing to happen. If you don't care about this issue thats fine but stop downplaying this issue for those who do care. The people running damage control are causing this issue to go on and on because of their poor attitude.

What do you use it for anyway? You keep saying it's a big deal; I personally tried it out, but got rid of it in about a month. Not only is it super slow, but it's a pain to get everything working. Any computer nowadays would outperform PS3's linux.

 

To be honest it is indeed slow and its practicality has never been great (not many apps are written for PPC's obviously) but I cannot in good consience support any companies decision to shaft the consumer and blatantly breach their rights in order to look after themselves.  If you think its fine for Sony to remove features that you paid for then thats fair enough, personally I think you're all stark raving bonkers putting some misguided concept of loyalty ahead of your rights as a consumer.

that's not the point, the point is Sony took this away for a reason, and would not have if it wasn't for that reason............... why the hell AREN'T getting mad at the reason is the point. you do know if he hadn't opened his mouth you'd still have access to the feature YOU NEVER USE!!!!

if you really cared for other os it's the damned hacker you should be pissed off at. (LIKE OBVIOUSLY) not Sony, the company fully well knows what hacking and piarting is capable of (psp) the guy openly stated he HACKED the ps3........ you have to be one naive person to think this hack wouldn't eventually open doors for much worse things. I mean geodouch wanted fame, at the expense of everyone else. and we eventually paid the price for it, and now people like you are encouraging this guy to go further.... which would lead to even more problems.... not for him but for this rest of us.

If I knew this hacker fag I'd sooo "convince" him to stop hacking and if he do to keep that shit to himself. that way he can hack all he want and I can still have all my features imo. win win

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

but whatever to get Sony back as the bad guy I guess......... I mean, we all remember the APOCOLYPS3!!!!!! yeah the death and doom of ALL ps3's worth of hundreads of articles on every major web site, front page news(literally)...................... for a problem that effected less that half of the ps3 users and fixed it's'self within 24 hours. *sigh*

You scream about me being naive then claim the ills of the PSP are all about piracy.  Face facts, piracy didn't kill the PSP, crap software is killing it plain and simple.  The Wii, DS and 360 all have huge piracy issues yet their software figures are great, I'm sick of hearing that lame excuse for the PSP's performance.  Complain at Sony to release titles people actually want to buy on the PSP as thats the issue there, NOT piracy.

Geohot didn't remove the feature, Sony did and there is no disputing that fact.  I couldn't care less what their excuse is, there are other ways to handle this scenario that don't infringe upon a consumers rights. 

I'll say it once again just in case you missed it the 5 times I've said it before or so.  If you guys keep coming in these threads telling us its not an issue then we'll keep posting just how much of an issue it is back, you're responsible for this debate continuing not anyone else.



MARCUSDJACKSON on 12 April 2010

sony. its time to dissable the cell processor. just like other os. you own the rights to it.



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almcchesney on 12 April 2010
_mevildan said:
jneul said:
_mevildan said:
I see a lot of people saying they support the decision and it was useless feature anyway and they don't use it blah blah.


This is wonderful thinking if you don't use it. But have some empathy for those who liked the feature.

My brother and I used it. We are software developers and having linux on there was an awesome way to have fun programming for the cell. Yeah you get emulators, but this was the real deal, programming on the metal. And seeing as though we brought our PS3 knowing about this we were pretty excited. We have been working on a software project for years that we have been keen to get working 100% on the cell as well. Well those dreams are gone now.

But wait, thank the heavens, there is a "choice" there, keep OS and never get any other games or play online again. How fair and thoughtful. Having invested in about 35 games so far and lot's of trophies on my profile I guess I have to "choose" to install the update and kiss linux goodbye.

Oh and I have a "real" PC too, doesn't mean that the other OS feature wasn't useful to me for other purposes. We are pretty pissed off, but I guess (as Sony is hoping) we will get over it. I couldn't even look at my PS3 recently quite honestly.

To be honest, yes I feel sorry for you both, but like I said, just look at the bigger picture there are 33m + ps3 users out there, most of us do not use linux, I used to use it on my fat ps3, but got over it when I chose to get a ps3 slim instead, unfortunately you will have to choose between online games or programming, as normal single player games are still avaiilable no matter what you choose.

Yeah I do understand. I mean Sony can't afford to have their console a pirate's haven.

I just wish there was another route they could have taken for the few of us. Like a case by case application or something. Let people apply to keep the feature. I mean they have seriously hurt some of our plans that have been years in the making. I had Gimp on there. Programming SDks etc. I even had Quake 2 linux on there. All gone. I am going to have to go and play some Uncharted 2 or something to make me feel good about that little black box again.

if i were u id save and get a ps3 that hasnt been updated and use it for programming and such there are prbly some out there u can guy that are still pre 6.21 frimware



almcchesney on 12 April 2010
slowmo said:
ultima said:
slowmo said:
Once again people post ignorantly completely missing the point of why this was such a bad thing to happen. If you don't care about this issue thats fine but stop downplaying this issue for those who do care. The people running damage control are causing this issue to go on and on because of their poor attitude.

What do you use it for anyway? You keep saying it's a big deal; I personally tried it out, but got rid of it in about a month. Not only is it super slow, but it's a pain to get everything working. Any computer nowadays would outperform PS3's linux.

 

To be honest it is indeed slow and its practicality has never been great (not many apps are written for PPC's obviously) but I cannot in good consience support any companies decision to shaft the consumer and blatantly breach their rights in order to look after themselves.  If you think its fine for Sony to remove features that you paid for then thats fair enough, personally I think you're all stark raving bonkers putting some misguided concept of loyalty ahead of your rights as a consumer.

idk about you but i am looking after myself when i support sony, you have a machine that is capable of using a terabyte hard drive, if you mix in the factor that it was shown possible with the psp that you can reroute the games onto the harddrive, with some tuts a lot of people would buy the ps3 and just pirate games and save it to the hdd, then losing money publishers would stop making games for the ps3 and i would ultimately lose. it has happened with the psp, i missed out on a lot of good games because of the fact it was so easy to pirate on it, and sony is saving not only themselves but in the end ultimately the consumer