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Forums - General - Collateral Murder

Sqrl said:
Kamal said:
Sqrl said:

It's nice to see that people are incapable of making informed rational assessments and instead rely on emotional gut reactions.

Hey everybody!  LYNCH MOB!

Boy, you're right, now I feel great about myself!  When can we hang the next innocent target of our ignorance murderer?

 

Seriously Kamal, if you had a solid substantive point to make you would have made it.  But you don't so instead you stand back and lob bombs at people you disagree with.  It's a pathetic form of debate (really it's an attack) and one that isn't tolerated on this forum.  Make a substantive post or leave the thread.  I'm happy to debate anyone who disagrees but I'm not going to stand here while someone throws bombs without actually making an argument of their own.

Lol, from what I see they were enjoying murdering those people like it was a 11 kill streak in Call of Duty, and gratifying there deaths, I don't really care how the video is assessed that fact can not be taking away.

Ah yes, so our assessment is a fact and everyone else is just wrong or at least to be ignored?  You declare them murders, and now its a fact?  You declare they enjoyed killing people, and so they must have?

The fact is that people react to stressful situations in a lot of different ways, and short of having a psychological evulation on these men to read from neither of us is qualified to say if these people were exhibiting an innapropriate reaction to an awful situation or genuine enjoyment of killing.  One thing is for sure, it's really easy for you to sit back in your ivory tower without ever having been in a situation like this and be so sure of yourself and your conclusions despite lacking any experience to draw on.

Like you said neither of us can draw a basis to if they are invoking inappropriate behaviour to this incident, but from the video they way they conducted their work was disgusting and to me they sounded almost trigger hat nearly cost the life of children, the only reason they were put in that situation is because those two actually had a soul and tried to salvage the life he had.

It's easy for you to have no care the world, as you know your family wouldn't be mowed down by bullets for someone's ignorance. The fact is people died here, soldiers have died I think taking light in any situation isn't right.

 



"Life is but a gentle death. Fate is but a sickness that results in extinction and in the midst of all the uncertainty, lies resolve."

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Kamal said:
Sqrl said:

Ah yes, so our assessment is a fact and everyone else is just wrong or at least to be ignored?  You declare them murders, and now its a fact?  You declare they enjoyed killing people, and so they must have?

The fact is that people react to stressful situations in a lot of different ways, and short of having a psychological evulation on these men to read from neither of us is qualified to say if these people were exhibiting an innapropriate reaction to an awful situation or genuine enjoyment of killing.  One thing is for sure, it's really easy for you to sit back in your ivory tower without ever having been in a situation like this and be so sure of yourself and your conclusions despite lacking any experience to draw on.

Like you said neither of us can draw a basis to if they are invoking inappropriate behaviour to this incident, but from the video they way they conducted their work was disgusting and to me they sounded almost trigger hat nearly cost the life of children, the only reason they were put in that situation is because those two actually had a soul and tried to salvage the life he had.

It's easy for you to have no care the world, as you know your family wouldn't be mowed down by bullets for someone's ignorance. The fact is people died here, soldiers have died I think taking light in any situation isn't right.

 

If you go back and look at my posts I have been adament from the beginning that the comments they made were innappropriate.  What I'm not willing to say is that those comments were born of murderous rage instead of just a distasteful coping mechanism.  I'm simply not qualified and I think labeling someone something so monstrous without being extremely sure is bordering on monstrous in its own right.

You've got it exactly wrong about me not caring caring about this.  I do care about this incident, and I want it to be thoroughly investigated from every angle without someone being condemned before all the angles have been covered.  I've argued for that throughout the thread.



To Each Man, Responsibility

i think it is good that armed terrorists died here. the reuters guys hooked up with armed terrorists...whether for a "good story" or for more sinister reasons is irrelevant...if you are hanging out with terrorists then you run the risk of being shot.



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

MrBubbles Review Threads: Bill Gates, Jak II, Kingdom Hearts II, The Strangers, Sly 2, Crackdown, Zohan, Quarantine, Klungo Sssavesss Teh World, MS@E3'08, WATCHMEN(movie), Shadow of the Colossus, The Saboteur

MrBubbles said:
i think it is good that armed terrorists died here. the reuters guys hooked up with armed terrorists...whether for a "good story" or for more sinister reasons is irrelevant...if you are hanging out with terrorists then you run the risk of being shot.

This kind of goes back to the point I was making about journalist reporting their locations.

But it is fair to point out that he may have done so and the information may well have been misshandled.  We don't know.

 

I know people like to draw conclusions and bundle things into nice neat piles...but seriously...we don't know so much about this case.

 

Any conclusions are tentative at best.



To Each Man, Responsibility
Sqrl said:
Kamal said:
Sqrl said:

Ah yes, so our assessment is a fact and everyone else is just wrong or at least to be ignored?  You declare them murders, and now its a fact?  You declare they enjoyed killing people, and so they must have?

The fact is that people react to stressful situations in a lot of different ways, and short of having a psychological evulation on these men to read from neither of us is qualified to say if these people were exhibiting an innapropriate reaction to an awful situation or genuine enjoyment of killing.  One thing is for sure, it's really easy for you to sit back in your ivory tower without ever having been in a situation like this and be so sure of yourself and your conclusions despite lacking any experience to draw on.

Like you said neither of us can draw a basis to if they are invoking inappropriate behaviour to this incident, but from the video they way they conducted their work was disgusting and to me they sounded almost trigger hat nearly cost the life of children, the only reason they were put in that situation is because those two actually had a soul and tried to salvage the life he had.

It's easy for you to have no care the world, as you know your family wouldn't be mowed down by bullets for someone's ignorance. The fact is people died here, soldiers have died I think taking light in any situation isn't right.

 

If you go back and look at my posts I have been adament from the beginning that the comments they made were innappropriate.  What I'm not willing to say is that those comments were born of murderous rage instead of just a distasteful coping mechanism.  I'm simply not qualified and I think labeling someone something so monstrous without being extremely sure is bordering on monstrous in its own right.

You've got it exactly wrong about me not caring caring about this.  I do care about this incident, and I want it to be thoroughly investigated from every angle without someone being condemned before all the angles have been covered.  I've argued for that throughout the thread.

Atleast we have the same standing in one thing.

Like I say in life

"Lets look for the similarities instead of the differences"

 

 



"Life is but a gentle death. Fate is but a sickness that results in extinction and in the midst of all the uncertainty, lies resolve."

Around the Network
Sqrl said:
MrBubbles said:
i think it is good that armed terrorists died here. the reuters guys hooked up with armed terrorists...whether for a "good story" or for more sinister reasons is irrelevant...if you are hanging out with terrorists then you run the risk of being shot.

This kind of goes back to the point I was making about journalist reporting their locations.

But it is fair to point out that he may have done so and the information may well have been misshandled.  We don't know.

 

I know people like to draw conclusions and bundle things into nice neat piles...but seriously...we don't know so much about this case.

 

Any conclusions are tentative at best.

ive seen some of the BBC things when they go visit some of the taliban.  they are generally blindfolded and agree not to reveal any sort of information about the possible location of the where theyve been taken.  you tell people you are with some terrorists and it can put the journalists lives at risk and any others intending to work in the region.

so it would seem unlikely that they would report their whereabouts.  its dangerous working in a warzone and you take risks to get the story.



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

MrBubbles Review Threads: Bill Gates, Jak II, Kingdom Hearts II, The Strangers, Sly 2, Crackdown, Zohan, Quarantine, Klungo Sssavesss Teh World, MS@E3'08, WATCHMEN(movie), Shadow of the Colossus, The Saboteur

MrBubbles said:
Sqrl said:
MrBubbles said:
i think it is good that armed terrorists died here. the reuters guys hooked up with armed terrorists...whether for a "good story" or for more sinister reasons is irrelevant...if you are hanging out with terrorists then you run the risk of being shot.

This kind of goes back to the point I was making about journalist reporting their locations.

But it is fair to point out that he may have done so and the information may well have been misshandled.  We don't know.

 

I know people like to draw conclusions and bundle things into nice neat piles...but seriously...we don't know so much about this case.

 

Any conclusions are tentative at best.

ive seen some of the BBC things when they go visit some of the taliban.  they are generally blindfolded and agree not to reveal any sort of information about the possible location of the where theyve been taken.  you tell people you are with some terrorists and it can put the journalists lives at risk and any others intending to work in the region.

so it would seem unlikely that they would report their whereabouts.  its dangerous working in a warzone and you take risks to get the story.

That is exactly it. If the helos don't know there are civilians in the area, because the jouranlists may have not notified the proper officials, then your life is in jeopardy.

If you run around with a mob that flashes RPG-like weaponry at a helicopter, chances are, you will get shot at. Unfortunately, that is war. I hope an investigation is done to ensure the right steps were taken by the pilots, but again, we've never had a war to where no friendlies were killed, or there were no friendly fire incedents.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

MrBubbles said:
Sqrl said:
MrBubbles said:
i think it is good that armed terrorists died here. the reuters guys hooked up with armed terrorists...whether for a "good story" or for more sinister reasons is irrelevant...if you are hanging out with terrorists then you run the risk of being shot.

This kind of goes back to the point I was making about journalist reporting their locations.

But it is fair to point out that he may have done so and the information may well have been misshandled.  We don't know.

 

I know people like to draw conclusions and bundle things into nice neat piles...but seriously...we don't know so much about this case.

 

Any conclusions are tentative at best.

ive seen some of the BBC things when they go visit some of the taliban.  they are generally blindfolded and agree not to reveal any sort of information about the possible location of the where theyve been taken.  you tell people you are with some terrorists and it can put the journalists lives at risk and any others intending to work in the region.

so it would seem unlikely that they would report their whereabouts.  its dangerous working in a warzone and you take risks to get the story.

Thats the point exactly though.  If they didn't report where they were so they could have unfettered access to insurgents and get their point of view on the battlefield then that has risks to it as you correctly pointed out.  A war cannot be put on hold while journalist go get a scoop, and they know as much and accept the risk implicitly by participating in the process.

Still we don't know if that happened here...if they notified authorities and the information was mishandled then that doesn't fall on either the journalists or the gunners/pilots of the gunship and in fact falls on someone else nobody has even pointed to yet. 

Bottom line is we are ill-equipped to judge what happened.  The best we can do is give benefit of the doubt that the journalist was there on legitimate journalistic business and say it was unfortunate that he and the children got cought in the line of fire.

The rest should really be left to a formal investigation that will have access to all of the facts and will have all of the relevant context.



To Each Man, Responsibility
Kamal said:
Sqrl said:
Kamal said:
Sqrl said:

It's nice to see that people are incapable of making informed rational assessments and instead rely on emotional gut reactions.

Hey everybody!  LYNCH MOB!

Boy, you're right, now I feel great about myself!  When can we hang the next innocent target of our ignorance murderer?

 

Seriously Kamal, if you had a solid substantive point to make you would have made it.  But you don't so instead you stand back and lob bombs at people you disagree with.  It's a pathetic form of debate (really it's an attack) and one that isn't tolerated on this forum.  Make a substantive post or leave the thread.  I'm happy to debate anyone who disagrees but I'm not going to stand here while someone throws bombs without actually making an argument of their own.

Lol, from what I see they were enjoying murdering those people like it was a 11 kill streak in Call of Duty, and gratifying there deaths, I don't really care how the video is assessed that fact can not be taking away.

Ah yes, so our assessment is a fact and everyone else is just wrong or at least to be ignored?  You declare them murders, and now its a fact?  You declare they enjoyed killing people, and so they must have?

The fact is that people react to stressful situations in a lot of different ways, and short of having a psychological evulation on these men to read from neither of us is qualified to say if these people were exhibiting an innapropriate reaction to an awful situation or genuine enjoyment of killing.  One thing is for sure, it's really easy for you to sit back in your ivory tower without ever having been in a situation like this and be so sure of yourself and your conclusions despite lacking any experience to draw on.

Like you said neither of us can draw a basis to if they are invoking inappropriate behaviour to this incident, but from the video they way they conducted their work was disgusting and to me they sounded almost trigger hat nearly cost the life of children, the only reason they were put in that situation is because those two actually had a soul and tried to salvage the life he had.

It's easy for you to have no care the world, as you know your family wouldn't be mowed down by bullets for someone's ignorance. The fact is people died here, soldiers have died I think taking light in any situation isn't right.

 

The people that died were shooting at american soldiers. So no I don't care that they died. As for the children and reporters, they should have never been there; and thats regrettable but that happens.



hobbit said:
Kamal said:
Sqrl said:
Kamal said:
Sqrl said:

It's nice to see that people are incapable of making informed rational assessments and instead rely on emotional gut reactions.

Hey everybody!  LYNCH MOB!

Boy, you're right, now I feel great about myself!  When can we hang the next innocent target of our ignorance murderer?

 

Seriously Kamal, if you had a solid substantive point to make you would have made it.  But you don't so instead you stand back and lob bombs at people you disagree with.  It's a pathetic form of debate (really it's an attack) and one that isn't tolerated on this forum.  Make a substantive post or leave the thread.  I'm happy to debate anyone who disagrees but I'm not going to stand here while someone throws bombs without actually making an argument of their own.

Lol, from what I see they were enjoying murdering those people like it was a 11 kill streak in Call of Duty, and gratifying there deaths, I don't really care how the video is assessed that fact can not be taking away.

Ah yes, so our assessment is a fact and everyone else is just wrong or at least to be ignored?  You declare them murders, and now its a fact?  You declare they enjoyed killing people, and so they must have?

The fact is that people react to stressful situations in a lot of different ways, and short of having a psychological evulation on these men to read from neither of us is qualified to say if these people were exhibiting an innapropriate reaction to an awful situation or genuine enjoyment of killing.  One thing is for sure, it's really easy for you to sit back in your ivory tower without ever having been in a situation like this and be so sure of yourself and your conclusions despite lacking any experience to draw on.

Like you said neither of us can draw a basis to if they are invoking inappropriate behaviour to this incident, but from the video they way they conducted their work was disgusting and to me they sounded almost trigger hat nearly cost the life of children, the only reason they were put in that situation is because those two actually had a soul and tried to salvage the life he had.

It's easy for you to have no care the world, as you know your family wouldn't be mowed down by bullets for someone's ignorance. The fact is people died here, soldiers have died I think taking light in any situation isn't right.

 

The people that died were shooting at american soldiers. So no I don't care that they died. As for the children and reporters, they should have never been there; and thats regrettable but that happens.

USA soldiers shouldnt be there too.