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Forums - Sony - Sony Explains why it passed on NATAL TECH

Cueil on 30 March 2010
justinian said:
Squilliam said:

Neither Sony nor Nintendo have the same level of investment and pure research that Microsoft has in this field. What they saw of the physical technology behind Natal isn't actually the Natal that Microsoft was developing. They bought 3DV for the technology, patents and some software but they added it to work which was already underway in their research and development labs. Microsofts technology here for 3D gesture recognition is ahead of anything in the academic or comercial fields. What Sony says about Natal is pretty irrelevant they would trash talk it still if it was about the best interface ever developed.


Sony, one of the major camera manufacturers in the world don't have the investment and pure research to build a camera and write the software for this camera. Sony 3D cameras already have the world cup sown up so this must know something.

Jeez, how many cameras - still or video - and software for a camera have MS built? Yeah their webcams.

Sony have built millions of digital, bridge, SLR and video - and written the software for them.

Let's face it, that is what natal comes down to, a type of camera and the software, nothing more, nothing less. Period.

Comapnies like Reactrix Systems and GestureTek, along with the mentioned Israeli company 3DV Systems (now MS) have been at this whole thing for a while and depending on who you listen to any could be better than the other in regards to what they have up their sleeves.

I am not saying natal is crap, I look forward to seeing what it can do but because Nintendo and Sony turned it down doesn't mean they don't have the resources. Maybe they honestly thought it wasn't worth it.

If MS had turned it down (and sony hadn't) that would have made natal rubbish in your eyes, because your god didn't want it. Pathetic.

 

you don't understand what you're talking about... or rather you can't seem to understand what we're talking about



 
Get your Portable ID!

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Hephaestos on 30 March 2010
eggs2see said:
Hephaestos said:
eggs2see said:
Hephaestos said:
""This amount of headroom required will make it problematic to support software that was released prior to Natal.""

....this is dumb. Only Sony thinks it's relevant to have your old games upgraded to work with the new controler functions.
that the controler can be used with the game is one thing (like the first dualshock), but to actually go upgrade games that barely 2% of the owners are going to play with the controler....waiste of money

Ahh no it's not dumb, for starters all it would take is a patch.  And by allowing backwards compatability you are expanding the moves games library massively.  Not only that but new casual gamers buying a ps3 for the first time won't have to try and work out if a game will work with move or not.

When you give it abit of thought it actually makes alot of sence.

"that the controler can be used with the game is one thing (like the first dualshock)"

-> compatibility is on the controler's side. you design it so it works. Motion might not work but you can use the controler buttons all the same.... the move only has one analog stick, so this is a design limitation. (this is why you don't change your strategy mid gen...)

 

1) a patch would be one per game, not a global patch.... imagine the dev costs.

2) they are not going to release patches for every single PS3 game.... so your casual gamer might just think his copy of resistance 1 is defective.

3) your casual gamer needs to actually connect to PSN for that patch....not such a casual gamer move.

 

so dev time and dev cost consuming, definitely confusing to the casual and not even available to the really casuals. So no it doesn't make much sense.... this is a feature for hardcore gamers.... and they aren't very likely to go back on more than 1 or 2 games.

 

It's like the OtherOS feature... something that barely will be used... but is mostly a marketing tool (used here to dissmiss natal).

 

Correct the move only has one analog stick, howver the wand itself acts as the other analog stick, i don't see the limitation at all.

Patches are common place and i can't imagine adding functionality for a controller to be difficult, nor expensive. Of course each developer would have to take care of this themselves and decide wether move would work well with the game.  Developers would have an incentive to make there games move compatable as it could boost dwindling sales of older titles.

No your right they wouldnt patch everygame, like fifa 08 or something like that, but i can't see why patching most games would be difficult.  I can see them adding functionality to big games like uncharted 2, kz2, etc.

You do make a good point about extreme casual gamers not connecting to the net with there games consoles, but that being said everyone i know with a ps3 has it connected to psn and most of my friends i would consider casual gamers, they only buy games like guitar hero and fifa and mw2.  I think alot more people are starting to go online with games consoles

yeah but your friends already have a PS3... they are not the motion control casual crowd.

But in any case, it is true, online is becoming more mainstream.



OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO

Squilliam on 30 March 2010
justinian said:
Squilliam said:

Neither Sony nor Nintendo have the same level of investment and pure research that Microsoft has in this field. What they saw of the physical technology behind Natal isn't actually the Natal that Microsoft was developing. They bought 3DV for the technology, patents and some software but they added it to work which was already underway in their research and development labs. Microsofts technology here for 3D gesture recognition is ahead of anything in the academic or comercial fields. What Sony says about Natal is pretty irrelevant they would trash talk it still if it was about the best interface ever developed.


Sony, one of the major camera manufacturers in the world don't have the investment and pure research to build a camera and write the software for this camera. Sony 3D cameras already have the world cup sown up so this must know something.

Jeez, how many cameras - still or video - and software for a camera have MS built? Yeah their webcams.

Sony have built millions of digital, bridge, SLR and video - and written the software for them.

Let's face it, that is what natal comes down to, a type of camera and the software, nothing more, nothing less. Period.

Comapnies like Reactrix Systems and GestureTek, along with the mentioned Israeli company 3DV Systems (now MS) have been at this whole thing for a while and depending on who you listen to any could be better than the other in regards to what they have up their sleeves.

I am not saying natal is crap, I look forward to seeing what it can do but because Nintendo and Sony turned it down doesn't mean they don't have the resources. Maybe they honestly thought it wasn't worth it.

If MS had turned it down (and sony hadn't) that would have made natal rubbish in your eyes, because your god didn't want it. Pathetic.

 

Its all about the voice recognition and gesture recognition software and Microsoft are ahead of the game for gesture recognition and one behind the best in voice recognition as far as im aware. Natal is the fruits of an unrelated research and development program for a PC interface which was ongoing since before this console generation even started. So what they brought to the table when considering whether or not the technology was viable was completely different to Sony and Nintendo who opted for more a hardware based solution. Microsoft has plenty of innovative technology they have developed but so far they failed to find good applications for it, and Natal is one such good application.



Tease.

justinian on 30 March 2010
Cueil said:
justinian said:
Squilliam said:

Neither Sony nor Nintendo have the same level of investment and pure research that Microsoft has in this field. What they saw of the physical technology behind Natal isn't actually the Natal that Microsoft was developing. They bought 3DV for the technology, patents and some software but they added it to work which was already underway in their research and development labs. Microsofts technology here for 3D gesture recognition is ahead of anything in the academic or comercial fields. What Sony says about Natal is pretty irrelevant they would trash talk it still if it was about the best interface ever developed.


Sony, one of the major camera manufacturers in the world don't have the investment and pure research to build a camera and write the software for this camera. Sony 3D cameras already have the world cup sown up so this must know something.

Jeez, how many cameras - still or video - and software for a camera have MS built? Yeah their webcams.

Sony have built millions of digital, bridge, SLR and video - and written the software for them.

Let's face it, that is what natal comes down to, a type of camera and the software, nothing more, nothing less. Period.

Comapnies like Reactrix Systems and GestureTek, along with the mentioned Israeli company 3DV Systems (now MS) have been at this whole thing for a while and depending on who you listen to any could be better than the other in regards to what they have up their sleeves.

I am not saying natal is crap, I look forward to seeing what it can do but because Nintendo and Sony turned it down doesn't mean they don't have the resources. Maybe they honestly thought it wasn't worth it.

If MS had turned it down (and sony hadn't) that would have made natal rubbish in your eyes, because your god didn't want it. Pathetic.

 

you don't understand what you're talking about... or rather you can't seem to understand what we're talking about

As usual, the answer you get from people that don't know what they are talking about.



justinian on 30 March 2010
Squilliam said:
justinian said:
Squilliam said:

Neither Sony nor Nintendo have the same level of investment and pure research that Microsoft has in this field. What they saw of the physical technology behind Natal isn't actually the Natal that Microsoft was developing. They bought 3DV for the technology, patents and some software but they added it to work which was already underway in their research and development labs. Microsofts technology here for 3D gesture recognition is ahead of anything in the academic or comercial fields. What Sony says about Natal is pretty irrelevant they would trash talk it still if it was about the best interface ever developed.


Sony, one of the major camera manufacturers in the world don't have the investment and pure research to build a camera and write the software for this camera. Sony 3D cameras already have the world cup sown up so this must know something.

Jeez, how many cameras - still or video - and software for a camera have MS built? Yeah their webcams.

Sony have built millions of digital, bridge, SLR and video - and written the software for them.

Let's face it, that is what natal comes down to, a type of camera and the software, nothing more, nothing less. Period.

Comapnies like Reactrix Systems and GestureTek, along with the mentioned Israeli company 3DV Systems (now MS) have been at this whole thing for a while and depending on who you listen to any could be better than the other in regards to what they have up their sleeves.

I am not saying natal is crap, I look forward to seeing what it can do but because Nintendo and Sony turned it down doesn't mean they don't have the resources. Maybe they honestly thought it wasn't worth it.

If MS had turned it down (and sony hadn't) that would have made natal rubbish in your eyes, because your god didn't want it. Pathetic.

 

Its all about the voice recognition and gesture recognition software and Microsoft are ahead of the game for gesture recognition and one behind the best in voice recognition as far as im aware. Natal is the fruits of an unrelated research and development program for a PC interface which was ongoing since before this console generation even started. So what they brought to the table when considering whether or not the technology was viable was completely different to Sony and Nintendo who opted for more a hardware based solution. Microsoft has plenty of innovative technology they have developed but so far they failed to find good applications for it, and Natal is one such good application.

Your last post made more sense - and I agree. Sony (and Nintendo) opted to go a different way, not because Sony didn't have the resources to complete or improve on the project.

The only point you made that I would question is about MS already having this technology, that made buying 3DV a bit pointless. And with other companies springing up all over the place with the technology it surely was not to keep it away from Sony or Nintendo.

But generally I agree.



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Squilliam on 30 March 2010
justinian said:
Squilliam said:

Its all about the voice recognition and gesture recognition software and Microsoft are ahead of the game for gesture recognition and one behind the best in voice recognition as far as im aware. Natal is the fruits of an unrelated research and development program for a PC interface which was ongoing since before this console generation even started. So what they brought to the table when considering whether or not the technology was viable was completely different to Sony and Nintendo who opted for more a hardware based solution. Microsoft has plenty of innovative technology they have developed but so far they failed to find good applications for it, and Natal is one such good application.

Your last post made more sense - and I agree. Sony (and Nintendo) opted to go a different way, not because Sony didn't have the resources to complete or improve on the project.

The only point you made that I would question is about MS already having this technology, that made buying 3DV a bit pointless. And with other companies springing up all over the place with the technology it surely was not to keep it away from Sony or Nintendo.

But generally I agree.

Patent protection... Thats the reason why the bought those companies and they said so themselves. So they couldn't be sued and so they could sue anyone who infringed on their technology.



Tease.

justinian on 30 March 2010
Hephaestos said:
SpartanFX said:
justinian said:
Squilliam said:

Neither Sony nor Nintendo have the same level of investment and pure research that Microsoft has in this field. What they saw of the physical technology behind Natal isn't actually the Natal that Microsoft was developing. They bought 3DV for the technology, patents and some software but they added it to work which was already underway in their research and development labs. Microsofts technology here for 3D gesture recognition is ahead of anything in the academic or comercial fields. What Sony says about Natal is pretty irrelevant they would trash talk it still if it was about the best interface ever developed.


Sony, one of the major camera manufacturers in the world don't have the investment and pure research to build a camera and write the software for this camera. Sony 3D cameras already have the world cup sown up so this must know something.

Jeez, how many cameras - still or video - and software for a camera have MS built? Yeah their webcams.

Sony have built millions of digital, bridge, SLR and video - and written the software for them.

Let's face it, that is what natal comes down to, a type of camera and the software, nothing more, nothing less. Period.

Comapnies like Reactrix Systems and GestureTek, along with the mentioned Israeli company 3DV Systems (now MS) have been at this whole thing for a while and depending on who you listen to any could be better than the other in regards to what they have up their sleeves.

I am not saying natal is crap, I look forward to seeing what it can do but because Nintendo and Sony turned it down doesn't mean they don't have the resources. Maybe they honestly thought it wasn't worth it.

If MS had turned it down (and sony hadn't) that would have made natal rubbish in your eyes, because your god didn't want it. Pathetic.

 

lol,,,someone(squilliam) didn't see the sony's future investment plan which is mostly on 3D technology.even now most of movie studios use sony cameras for shooting movies in 3D(such as avatar 3D: http://news.creativecow.net/story/863021  )

One would think that the world's biggest software company is more fit to do what is essencially software developpment than a hardware manufacturer....

 

No, to truly understand the software you must first build the hardware. That's not my quote, but from one of the pioneers of modern computing.

This is not about writing a OS or a office suite program, this is basically a driver (application) software for the camera that works within the OS.

I would rather have a hardware company with far more experience in writing software for their numerous products than the biggest software company in the world.

This is taking nothing away from MS but saying simply because their are the biggest software company in the world makes them the best at anything software related is .... silly.

Toyota is the biggest car manufacturer in the world but I rather Ferrari build my car.

 



Cueil on 01 April 2010
justinian said:
Hephaestos said:
SpartanFX said:
justinian said:
Squilliam said:

Neither Sony nor Nintendo have the same level of investment and pure research that Microsoft has in this field. What they saw of the physical technology behind Natal isn't actually the Natal that Microsoft was developing. They bought 3DV for the technology, patents and some software but they added it to work which was already underway in their research and development labs. Microsofts technology here for 3D gesture recognition is ahead of anything in the academic or comercial fields. What Sony says about Natal is pretty irrelevant they would trash talk it still if it was about the best interface ever developed.


Sony, one of the major camera manufacturers in the world don't have the investment and pure research to build a camera and write the software for this camera. Sony 3D cameras already have the world cup sown up so this must know something.

Jeez, how many cameras - still or video - and software for a camera have MS built? Yeah their webcams.

Sony have built millions of digital, bridge, SLR and video - and written the software for them.

Let's face it, that is what natal comes down to, a type of camera and the software, nothing more, nothing less. Period.

Comapnies like Reactrix Systems and GestureTek, along with the mentioned Israeli company 3DV Systems (now MS) have been at this whole thing for a while and depending on who you listen to any could be better than the other in regards to what they have up their sleeves.

I am not saying natal is crap, I look forward to seeing what it can do but because Nintendo and Sony turned it down doesn't mean they don't have the resources. Maybe they honestly thought it wasn't worth it.

If MS had turned it down (and sony hadn't) that would have made natal rubbish in your eyes, because your god didn't want it. Pathetic.

 

lol,,,someone(squilliam) didn't see the sony's future investment plan which is mostly on 3D technology.even now most of movie studios use sony cameras for shooting movies in 3D(such as avatar 3D: http://news.creativecow.net/story/863021  )

One would think that the world's biggest software company is more fit to do what is essencially software developpment than a hardware manufacturer....

 

No, to truly understand the software you must first build the hardware. That's not my quote, but from one of the pioneers of modern computing.

This is not about writing a OS or a office suite program, this is basically a driver (application) software for the camera that works within the OS.

I would rather have a hardware company with far more experience in writing software for their numerous products than the biggest software company in the world.

This is taking nothing away from MS but saying simply because their are the biggest software company in the world makes them the best at anything software related is .... silly.

Toyota is the biggest car manufacturer in the world but I rather Ferrari build my car.

 

That's a very poor analogy... and the people at Microsoft has been writing software for hardware for longer than  most of these people have been alive... Natal was given birth in the R&D area and such that the software and hardware where created concurrently... one is worthless without the other... very few companies invest in Reasurch on the level that Microsoft does... and they pull in some of the greatest minds from many different sides of the science world



 
Get your Portable ID!

Alby_da_Wolf on 01 April 2010

Fuck science, I'll trust only Kevin Butler!



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!   


Xero on 01 April 2010
Cueil said:
justinian said:
Hephaestos said:
SpartanFX said:
justinian said:
Squilliam said:

Neither Sony nor Nintendo have the same level of investment and pure research that Microsoft has in this field. What they saw of the physical technology behind Natal isn't actually the Natal that Microsoft was developing. They bought 3DV for the technology, patents and some software but they added it to work which was already underway in their research and development labs. Microsofts technology here for 3D gesture recognition is ahead of anything in the academic or comercial fields. What Sony says about Natal is pretty irrelevant they would trash talk it still if it was about the best interface ever developed.


Sony, one of the major camera manufacturers in the world don't have the investment and pure research to build a camera and write the software for this camera. Sony 3D cameras already have the world cup sown up so this must know something.

Jeez, how many cameras - still or video - and software for a camera have MS built? Yeah their webcams.

Sony have built millions of digital, bridge, SLR and video - and written the software for them.

Let's face it, that is what natal comes down to, a type of camera and the software, nothing more, nothing less. Period.

Comapnies like Reactrix Systems and GestureTek, along with the mentioned Israeli company 3DV Systems (now MS) have been at this whole thing for a while and depending on who you listen to any could be better than the other in regards to what they have up their sleeves.

I am not saying natal is crap, I look forward to seeing what it can do but because Nintendo and Sony turned it down doesn't mean they don't have the resources. Maybe they honestly thought it wasn't worth it.

If MS had turned it down (and sony hadn't) that would have made natal rubbish in your eyes, because your god didn't want it. Pathetic.

 

lol,,,someone(squilliam) didn't see the sony's future investment plan which is mostly on 3D technology.even now most of movie studios use sony cameras for shooting movies in 3D(such as avatar 3D: http://news.creativecow.net/story/863021  )

One would think that the world's biggest software company is more fit to do what is essencially software developpment than a hardware manufacturer....

 

 

No, to truly understand the software you must first build the hardware. That's not my quote, but from one of the pioneers of modern computing.

 

This is not about writing a OS or a office suite program, this is basically a driver (application) software for the camera that works within the OS.

I would rather have a hardware company with far more experience in writing software for their numerous products than the biggest software company in the world.

This is taking nothing away from MS but saying simply because their are the biggest software company in the world makes them the best at anything software related is .... silly.

Toyota is the biggest car manufacturer in the world but I rather Ferrari build my car.

 

That's a very poor analogy... and the people at Microsoft has been writing software for hardware for longer than  most of these people have been alive... Natal was given birth in the R&D area and such that the software and hardware where created concurrently... one is worthless without the other... very few companies invest in Reasurch on the level that Microsoft does... and they pull in some of the greatest minds from many different sides of the science world

That's why Internet Explorer is the best browser. Microsofts software really is generally sub-standard compared to other developers, only reason half of it is used is because it's become a standard within a computing, but there a long shot from being the best software dev.