Ah god damnit.  I was totally going to come in and say "and so it begins" but well look what's in your post haha.  Ugh, don't have a good catch phrase for this one now.  Oh well, what you said. 

TheRealMafoo said: Final-Fan said: TheRealMafoo said: Final-Fan said: Governments are the biggest nonprofit organizations out there. Somewhere along the way, "profits" became a bad word. Not sure why that is. Sad really. I would guess a lot of it is because people don't like the way other people make those profits.  But what I meant when I said the quoted is more along the lines of the fact that non-profits aren't out to get money from the people they deal with ... like for-profits do.  Not evil, just the nature of the beast.  So that is an advantage that non-profits have, that they don't have to skim as big an amount as possible to appease and give to the shareholders.  Unfortunately governments also have disadvantages, which you're well aware of.  But name a nonprofit that makes a good TV, Cell Phone, or car? (well, we can joke that the government now makes cars, but anyway). When did a nonprofit discover a new medication for saving peoples lives? If the internet was left to nonprofits, we would not be talking right now, because the internet would not be what it is, and you and I would have nothing to type on. Just because profit is in the mix, does not make the outcome worse. In fact, 99% of the time, it makes it better. When you look at what the US achieved over the last 100 years, what do you think caused that? Do you think Americans are just smarter then the rest of the world? I sure don't think so. I think we did what we did, because companies were allowed to make a profit. Take that away, and we become Europe, in every way. Parts of Europe are great, but there were parts of the US that were unmatched by anyone in the world. You can't have it both ways. You want to socialize the US, you lose what made us great. And when the US losses that, the world losses along with it.

Well to be fair, it's hard to look at our system and use it as a case against that.  We are a majority capitalist system with profit-based organizations.  Might be a fairer comaprison for it if we found one that was the opposite. 

But, imo, I think our ability to advance in numerous areas is due to the freedom our companies have.  Although it is for the sake of a profit, it is that driving force of competition and the need for that profit that pushes them to investigate, research, and invest in many new technologies and innovations.  I just can't imagine getting that out a system that doesn't have that same driving force or simply hitting quotas.

But our government does contribute to a lot of those advances and research, namely through grants.  Although maybe some don't see the importance of funding companies who are trying to advance and innovate, I'm quite proud ours does to try and help make sure America is leading the way and not following. 

The US government is now seen as a riskier borrower than some American companies (as interest rates on treasury bonds are higher than some corporate bonds).

So you may be simply seeing the effects of the government needing a lot of money to keep bailing out banks, paying depositors for bank failures, propping up the housing market with money given to home buyers (instead of letting prices correct themselves), etc etc etc. Raising taxes alleviates the need for borrowing.

Yeah I was not aware that companies in Europe aren't allowed to make profits. Lol.

One of the major reasons for American dominance was that europe was devestated by two major wars whereas the US wasn't.

European companies have the same goal as american companies... Saying they don't is simply ignorant.

You do realise that a tax on imports (a tariff) is essentially a tax on exports, right?

The "in every way" means the good and the bad. The reason we have advanced almost every area of science farther then Europe, is profit. There is no question that the US has a higher risk/reward ratio then Europe. You win here, you win bigger. You fail here, you fail harder.

The upside to the European system, is your taken care of. The down side, is that comes at the expense of taking some of the rewards. As you close that risk/reward gap, you reduce the number of people willing to take large risks.

Mainly you reduce the number of people who can take large risks, because you have taken away some of the rewards they would have needed to already earn, to even try.

And the internet was created my the US government. It started from a nonprofit. it exploded in size and usefulness, due to profit (and porn).

This may be the biggest piece of win I have ever seen on VGC.

You do know that neither Republicans or Democrats are for tariffs right. (Outside of their special interest groups.)

Tariffs are bad for the economy.  Not good.  They lower world interconectivity which increases growth, and are quite unfair to third world countries.

Also, you know.  Tariffs can always be repaid in kind. 

Being against tariffs is like saying we should put a tax on stuff sold at Wal-mart because they sell it cheaper then local stores.