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Forums - Gaming - BioShock 2 DLC already on Disc

mirgro on 15 March 2010
twesterm said:
mirgro said:
twesterm said:
 

It's DLC, as simple as that.  It doesn't really matter when they finished it, it's something that was likely always DLC.

Also, you seem to think that just because you have to download DLC day one that means they were working on it between when the game went gold to the time it was released which isn't really true for all things. 

If it's something huge like Borderlands or Fallout DLC, then yeah, that probably wasn't finished.  If it's something like a few extra maps or whatever Bioshock 2 has, it was likely finished befor the game was released to manufacturer even if you had to download it day one.

It's simply how the publisher decides to release the stuff.  If they want to be like Valve and continually release free DLC that's their choice.  Valve has craploads of money coming in from Steam so they can afford to do that.  With Bioshock 2, they don't have that so they need to get their money somewhere.  If it's nickel and diming their customers, that's their choice just like it's your choice whether to buy the DLC or not.

So I am just wondering, what's your stance on piracy? Because all these excuses and stuff really sounds like a pirate's logic, just switched words.
  1. I'm against piracy
  2. How do you figure?

I feel entitled to [SOMETHING], I will find a way to get [SOMETHING], then I will justify it with poor excuses.

SOMETHING = Game for pirates

SOMETHING = Money for some developers



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twesterm on 15 March 2010
mirgro said:
twesterm said:
mirgro said:
twesterm said:
 

It's DLC, as simple as that.  It doesn't really matter when they finished it, it's something that was likely always DLC.

Also, you seem to think that just because you have to download DLC day one that means they were working on it between when the game went gold to the time it was released which isn't really true for all things. 

If it's something huge like Borderlands or Fallout DLC, then yeah, that probably wasn't finished.  If it's something like a few extra maps or whatever Bioshock 2 has, it was likely finished befor the game was released to manufacturer even if you had to download it day one.

It's simply how the publisher decides to release the stuff.  If they want to be like Valve and continually release free DLC that's their choice.  Valve has craploads of money coming in from Steam so they can afford to do that.  With Bioshock 2, they don't have that so they need to get their money somewhere.  If it's nickel and diming their customers, that's their choice just like it's your choice whether to buy the DLC or not.

So I am just wondering, what's your stance on piracy? Because all these excuses and stuff really sounds like a pirate's logic, just switched words.
  1. I'm against piracy
  2. How do you figure?

I feel entitled to [SOMETHING], I will find a way to get [SOMETHING], then I will justify it with poor excuses.

SOMETHING = Game for pirates

SOMETHING = Money for some developers

Ah, I see. 

With publishers, they are offering you a service. You can choose to buy that service or simply not to.

With pirates, they're simply cheap fucks that want something for free.  They see something they feel entitled to and simply take it.

There's a bit of a difference and that's all I'm going to say on the subject since this isn't a thread about piracy.



 

mirgro on 15 March 2010
twesterm said:
mirgro said:
twesterm said:
mirgro said:
twesterm said:
 

It's DLC, as simple as that.  It doesn't really matter when they finished it, it's something that was likely always DLC.

Also, you seem to think that just because you have to download DLC day one that means they were working on it between when the game went gold to the time it was released which isn't really true for all things. 

If it's something huge like Borderlands or Fallout DLC, then yeah, that probably wasn't finished.  If it's something like a few extra maps or whatever Bioshock 2 has, it was likely finished befor the game was released to manufacturer even if you had to download it day one.

It's simply how the publisher decides to release the stuff.  If they want to be like Valve and continually release free DLC that's their choice.  Valve has craploads of money coming in from Steam so they can afford to do that.  With Bioshock 2, they don't have that so they need to get their money somewhere.  If it's nickel and diming their customers, that's their choice just like it's your choice whether to buy the DLC or not.

So I am just wondering, what's your stance on piracy? Because all these excuses and stuff really sounds like a pirate's logic, just switched words.
  1. I'm against piracy
  2. How do you figure?

I feel entitled to [SOMETHING], I will find a way to get [SOMETHING], then I will justify it with poor excuses.

SOMETHING = Game for pirates

SOMETHING = Money for some developers

Ah, I see. 

With publishers, they are offering you a service. You can choose to buy that service or simply not to.

With pirates, they're simply cheap fucks that want something for free.  They see something they feel entitled to and simply take it.

There's a bit of a difference and that's all I'm going to say on the subject since this isn't a thread about piracy.

See the way I see it, publishers as well are cheap fucks who want somethign for almost nothing. They feel entitled to it and simply find some way to take it.

Sinceit's a thread about the DLC, look at the MW2 DLC, it fully supports what I am saying, 2 of their new maps are even already made.



twesterm on 15 March 2010
mirgro said:
twesterm said:
mirgro said:

I feel entitled to [SOMETHING], I will find a way to get [SOMETHING], then I will justify it with poor excuses.

SOMETHING = Game for pirates

SOMETHING = Money for some developers

Ah, I see. 

With publishers, they are offering you a service. You can choose to buy that service or simply not to.

With pirates, they're simply cheap fucks that want something for free.  They see something they feel entitled to and simply take it.

There's a bit of a difference and that's all I'm going to say on the subject since this isn't a thread about piracy.

See the way I see it, publishers as well are cheap fucks who want somethign for almost nothing. They feel entitled to it and simply find some way to take it.

Sinceit's a thread about the DLC, look at the MW2 DLC, it fully supports what I am saying, 2 of their new maps are even already made.

The publishers may be cheap fucks, but they at least did work and are providing you with a service.  If you want that service, you have to pay for it.  If you don't think that service is worth the price, don't pay the price.

Simple concept.



 

Demotruk on 15 March 2010
twesterm said:
Demotruk said:
twesterm said:
Actually, you couldn't be more wrong and are falling for a common misconception. 

You aren't paying for the content on the disc, you're paying for the license to use it.  That license does not cover the DLC, it only covers the game itself.  If you want to use that DLC, you have to buy the proper license.

What are you talking about? When do you sign a license with console games? You're thinking of PC games.

 

With a console game you OWN the copy, you own the disc and everything on it though you don't own the right to copy and distribute it further.

 

Which is fine. It just means that anyone who hacks the game to access the "DLC" is perfectly within their rights.

When do you sign a license for a PC game?

Read the End User License Agreement your game manual, you're only buying a license.  You do not own the content on that disc, you're merely buying a license to use what content that license lets you use.

I'm really not making this stuff up, pick a random console game from your collection and look at the EULA.

 

Just opened up my box for The World Ends with You. There's warranty info, customer service info, no EULA. Opened Fire Emblem: SD, the exact same thing.

 

When you install a game on PC, it shows you a license and you can't install unless you press "I agree" or "I accept".



A game I'm developing with some friends:

www.xnagg.com/zombieasteroids/publish.htm

It is largely a technical exercise but feedback is appreciated.

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mirgro on 15 March 2010
twesterm said:
mirgro said:
 

See the way I see it, publishers as well are cheap fucks who want somethign for almost nothing. They feel entitled to it and simply find some way to take it.

Sinceit's a thread about the DLC, look at the MW2 DLC, it fully supports what I am saying, 2 of their new maps are even already made.

The publishers may be cheap fucks, but they at least did work and are providing you with a service.  If you want that service, you have to pay for it.  If you don't think that service is worth the price, don't pay the price.

Simple concept.

I will just say this. Up until this generation just about all the DLC seen was created for free by modders on the PC. Maps, new campaigns, new models, and new weapons even. Now all of the sudden these tools disappear, when they obviously can work on consoles as shown with UT3, and people get charged for the simplest things.

At least pirates are honest about what they do while publishers do all sorts of FUD and fact hiding to get away with what they do.



twesterm on 15 March 2010
mirgro said:
twesterm said:
mirgro said:
 

See the way I see it, publishers as well are cheap fucks who want somethign for almost nothing. They feel entitled to it and simply find some way to take it.

Sinceit's a thread about the DLC, look at the MW2 DLC, it fully supports what I am saying, 2 of their new maps are even already made.

The publishers may be cheap fucks, but they at least did work and are providing you with a service.  If you want that service, you have to pay for it.  If you don't think that service is worth the price, don't pay the price.

Simple concept.

I will just say this. Up until this generation just about all the DLC seen was created for free by modders on the PC. Maps, new campaigns, new models, and new weapons even. Now all of the sudden these tools disappear, when they obviously can work on consoles as shown with UT3, and people get charged for the simplest things.

At least pirates are honest about what they do while publishers do all sorts of FUD and fact hiding to get away with what they do.

Modders either aren't professionals or professionals just having fun so it makes sense not to pay for that.

Modders can try to sell their work, but then of course they would have to license the engine in most cases.



 

twesterm on 15 March 2010
Demotruk said:
twesterm said:
Demotruk said:
twesterm said:
Actually, you couldn't be more wrong and are falling for a common misconception. 

You aren't paying for the content on the disc, you're paying for the license to use it.  That license does not cover the DLC, it only covers the game itself.  If you want to use that DLC, you have to buy the proper license.

What are you talking about? When do you sign a license with console games? You're thinking of PC games.

 

With a console game you OWN the copy, you own the disc and everything on it though you don't own the right to copy and distribute it further.

 

Which is fine. It just means that anyone who hacks the game to access the "DLC" is perfectly within their rights.

When do you sign a license for a PC game?

Read the End User License Agreement your game manual, you're only buying a license.  You do not own the content on that disc, you're merely buying a license to use what content that license lets you use.

I'm really not making this stuff up, pick a random console game from your collection and look at the EULA.

 

Just opened up my box for The World Ends with You. There's warranty info, customer service info, no EULA. Opened Fire Emblem: SD, the exact same thing.

 

When you install a game on PC, it shows you a license and you can't install unless you press "I agree" or "I accept".

I won't say I don't believe, I'll just say maybe you missed it.  I've never really taken the time to look at a DS case and manual and unfortunately don't have one on me but I'm pretty sure they have a EULa.  It would be stupid not to.

I happen to have a copy of PS3 Ghostbusters at my desk and I know there's a EULA in that manual that talks about license and I've looked in other games manuals and they all have EULA's that talk about licenses.

-edit-

Actually, you're in Ireland. I would assume that even Ireland must have license agreements but I'm not even going to pretend to know anything about Ireland.  I'll let someone actually from around there talk about that.



 

Demotruk on 15 March 2010

I just opened up a PC game, FEAR, and yes there is a long EULA in the manual. But I can't find anything equivalent in my DS or Wii games.



A game I'm developing with some friends:

www.xnagg.com/zombieasteroids/publish.htm

It is largely a technical exercise but feedback is appreciated.

Demotruk on 15 March 2010
twesterm said:
Demotruk said:
twesterm said:
Demotruk said:
twesterm said:
Actually, you couldn't be more wrong and are falling for a common misconception. 

You aren't paying for the content on the disc, you're paying for the license to use it.  That license does not cover the DLC, it only covers the game itself.  If you want to use that DLC, you have to buy the proper license.

What are you talking about? When do you sign a license with console games? You're thinking of PC games.

 

With a console game you OWN the copy, you own the disc and everything on it though you don't own the right to copy and distribute it further.

 

Which is fine. It just means that anyone who hacks the game to access the "DLC" is perfectly within their rights.

When do you sign a license for a PC game?

Read the End User License Agreement your game manual, you're only buying a license.  You do not own the content on that disc, you're merely buying a license to use what content that license lets you use.

I'm really not making this stuff up, pick a random console game from your collection and look at the EULA.

 

Just opened up my box for The World Ends with You. There's warranty info, customer service info, no EULA. Opened Fire Emblem: SD, the exact same thing.

 

When you install a game on PC, it shows you a license and you can't install unless you press "I agree" or "I accept".

I won't say I don't believe, I'll just say maybe you missed it.  I've never really taken the time to look at a DS case and manual and unfortunately don't have one on me but I'm pretty sure they have a EULa.  It would be stupid not to.

I happen to have a copy of PS3 Ghostbusters at my desk and I know there's a EULA in that manual that talks about license and I've looked in other games manuals and they all have EULA's that talk about licenses.

I didn't miss it. I checked two DS and one Wii game. And then the first PC game, yep there it was.

 

You should check for yourself. Maybe you've bought into one of the industry's most common misconceptions.



A game I'm developing with some friends:

www.xnagg.com/zombieasteroids/publish.htm

It is largely a technical exercise but feedback is appreciated.