rocketpig said: Onyxmeth said: BSG's last season was horrific. I don't mind giving this show a chance if the mojo is there again with the creators.  I think the first half of season four was kinda shit but I thought it picked up nicely and closed everything up in the end. I have very few complaints with the series because I've NEVER been completely satisfied with a series' end and at least BSG didn't leave a bad taste in my mouth. I mean, damn, look at Lost. At this point, I'm convinced the writers are wearing entire sheets of acid in their britches while getting lap dances from rent-a-strippers and doing copious amounts of blow off what is supposed to be the script. Comparatively speaking, BSG did a pretty good job with their dangling plot lines.

Lost was from beginning to end about two things. Characters going towards and dealing with their fates and the mystery of the island. In Season 6 it's more about that than ever. If you're talking about how weird everything is in general, Lost has always been weird, has always gotten weirder as the series has progressed, so it was natural it would be something totally different by the end than when it started. The show has never had to speed everything up considerably to fit in all the answers by the end, which shows it's had better planning than BSG did. Then again it also wasn't cancelled. 

BSG abandoned far too many of it's themes to play story wrap up, and I can still name off numerous things, major things that were never tied up or explained. Not to mention Season 4.5 addressed the great political unrest of the series for two episodes only, and then threw it out the airlock...literally. The season was a huge mashup of crap just so they could fast track it to good earth only 10 or so episodes after finding nuclear earth. While I agree you're right that BSG handled the delicate balances for quite a while, that all fell to shit the moment they had to close the series.

CrazyHorse said: I agree with you about BSG (in fact it's probably my second favourite show ever) so I was really looking forward to Caprica. I'm reasonably happy with how it's started out and will definately by continuing to watch. It's started a little slower than BSG I think but it's still better than most other shows out there. Has anyone being watching the new Stargate show? Can't make my mind up about that one. It's definately gone for the BSG appraoch but not quite sure it's hitting the mark.

Stargate Universe has been okay so far, has some good characthers, doesnt quite have the Stargate feel to it so far though (I watched and loved SG-1 and Atlantis)

Onyxmeth said: rocketpig said: Onyxmeth said: BSG's last season was horrific. I don't mind giving this show a chance if the mojo is there again with the creators.  I think the first half of season four was kinda shit but I thought it picked up nicely and closed everything up in the end. I have very few complaints with the series because I've NEVER been completely satisfied with a series' end and at least BSG didn't leave a bad taste in my mouth. I mean, damn, look at Lost. At this point, I'm convinced the writers are wearing entire sheets of acid in their britches while getting lap dances from rent-a-strippers and doing copious amounts of blow off what is supposed to be the script. Comparatively speaking, BSG did a pretty good job with their dangling plot lines. Lost was from beginning to end about two things. Characters going towards and dealing with their fates and the mystery of the island. In Season 6 it's more about that than ever. If you're talking about how weird everything is in general, Lost has always been weird, has always gotten weirder as the series has progressed, so it was natural it would be something totally different by the end than when it started. The show has never had to speed everything up considerably to fit in all the answers by the end, which shows it's had better planning than BSG did. Then again it also wasn't cancelled.  BSG abandoned far too many of it's themes to play story wrap up, and I can still name off numerous things, major things that were never tied up or explained. Not to mention Season 4.5 addressed the great political unrest of the series for two episodes only, and then threw it out the airlock...literally. The season was a huge mashup of crap just so they could fast track it to good earth only 10 or so episodes after finding nuclear earth. While I agree you're right that BSG handled the delicate balances for quite a while, that all fell to shit the moment they had to close the series.

Took the words right out of my mouth. BSG's last season was a complete let down, specially considering how good the other seasons were.

 

I was looking foward to seeing Caprica, but when I saw the last season of BSG it made me hesitant.

I've been watching it... I really like it.

I didn't even know it was BSG related at first... I thought it was just another bad Sci-Fi original movie.

It was turning out pretty good though... I heard them same frak and I was like... hey don't they say that on BSG. Then someone said Cylon... but it sounded like Psilon to me... and I was like... "hey wait... that's almost like they're ripping it off too..." and eventually I caught on.

Honestly I haven't even watched BSG much and I like it. Heard the good things about it well after it started, and I don't like jumping in mid way, and will have to rent the DVDs later.

Final-Fan said: It's pretty good, but there are some things that don't really make sense to me. For instance, Daniel Graystone apparently takes zero precautions like backing up the program/data his daughter's ghost is made from [edit:  before sticking it in an experimental robot with a stolen chip he doesn't even fully understand], and then when that goes wrong he just ASSUMES that Adama's daughter somehow disappeared as well instead of finding out, which he could easily check. (This is even more nonsensical since Tamara's ghost was created based on Zoe's, and he should, I think, have been able to do the same thing in reverse. Kind of an incentive to think of this possibility.)

I think Tamara disapearing is exactly why he can't recreate Zoe.  He didn't backup Zoe because as you stated... he could always just remake her if their were an error... and would he really want two versions of his daughter around?  Wouldn't that just be weird if he succeded and he had this backup... which as we saw with Tamara is never really off and would just forever be in that virtual world?  Besides he's super genius Daniel Greystone.  He's going to make a mistake?

So I think he was going to recreate her, though without some of the expiernces she had since her death, which raises questions about if it's still her since vital imput data is gone.

Then when he brought Adama to see her daughter... suddenly her daughter is gone.  How did she get out? 

She couldn't have without someone hacking Tamara out... or if Zoe's original programing was flawed... and somehow the program degrades after a while.

Now who could of hacked Tamara out into the V-world?  Only two people know of her existance.  Daniel himself... and Joseph... who doesn't know shit about computers.

I'm still watching Battlestar Galactica, and I'm near the end. It's amazing.

SO DON'T SPOIL IT!!!

(I'll watch Caprica afterwards)

Kasz216 said: Final-Fan said: It's pretty good, but there are some things that don't really make sense to me. For instance, Daniel Graystone apparently takes zero precautions like backing up the program/data his daughter's ghost is made from [edit:  before sticking it in an experimental robot with a stolen chip he doesn't even fully understand], and then when that goes wrong he just ASSUMES that Adama's daughter somehow disappeared as well instead of finding out, which he could easily check. (This is even more nonsensical since Tamara's ghost was created based on Zoe's, and he should, I think, have been able to do the same thing in reverse. Kind of an incentive to think of this possibility.) I think Tamara disapearing is exactly why he can't recreate Zoe.  He didn't backup Zoe because as you stated... he could always just remake her if their were an error... and would he really want two versions of his daughter around?  Wouldn't that just be weird if he succeded and he had this backup... which as we saw with Tamara is never really off and would just forever be in that virtual world?  Besides he's super genius Daniel Greystone.  He's going to make a mistake? So I think he was going to recreate her, though without some of the expiernces she had since her death, which raises questions about if it's still her since vital imput data is gone. Then when he brought Adama to see her daughter... suddenly her daughter is gone.  How did she get out?  She couldn't have without someone hacking Tamara out... or if Zoe's original programing was flawed... and somehow the program degrades after a while. Now who could of hacked Tamara out into the V-world?  Only two people know of her existance.  Daniel himself... and Joseph... who doesn't know shit about computers.

Well obviously at this point the window of opportunity is pretty much gone ... but a lot of time passed between these events.  I'm fuzzy on the calendar, but it was apparently long enough for Tamara to just about lose her mind.  And instead of Daniel saying, "wait a minute, I created Tamara from Zoe, maybe I can RE-create Zoe from Tamara!" he (according to his talk with Joseph, and he had no reason to lie) just frakkin' ASSUMED that, since he screwed up putting Zoe in the robot (and he thought she was destroyed), somehow for no reason Tamara was destroyed as well.  In fact, even if Zoe was gone for good (i.e. he couldn't use Tamara to re-create the ghost), I'd think he'd want to chat with the only other entity to share her form of existence. 

And as I said he had an unknown but substantial amount of time to realize all this.  Adama only came back after he regretted walking away the first time, right?  It wasn't right away. 

Final-Fan said: Kasz216 said: Final-Fan said: It's pretty good, but there are some things that don't really make sense to me. For instance, Daniel Graystone apparently takes zero precautions like backing up the program/data his daughter's ghost is made from [edit:  before sticking it in an experimental robot with a stolen chip he doesn't even fully understand], and then when that goes wrong he just ASSUMES that Adama's daughter somehow disappeared as well instead of finding out, which he could easily check. (This is even more nonsensical since Tamara's ghost was created based on Zoe's, and he should, I think, have been able to do the same thing in reverse. Kind of an incentive to think of this possibility.) I think Tamara disapearing is exactly why he can't recreate Zoe.  He didn't backup Zoe because as you stated... he could always just remake her if their were an error... and would he really want two versions of his daughter around?  Wouldn't that just be weird if he succeded and he had this backup... which as we saw with Tamara is never really off and would just forever be in that virtual world?  Besides he's super genius Daniel Greystone.  He's going to make a mistake? So I think he was going to recreate her, though without some of the expiernces she had since her death, which raises questions about if it's still her since vital imput data is gone. Then when he brought Adama to see her daughter... suddenly her daughter is gone.  How did she get out?  She couldn't have without someone hacking Tamara out... or if Zoe's original programing was flawed... and somehow the program degrades after a while. Now who could of hacked Tamara out into the V-world?  Only two people know of her existance.  Daniel himself... and Joseph... who doesn't know shit about computers. Well obviously at this point the window of opportunity is pretty much gone ... but a lot of time passed between these events.  I'm fuzzy on the calendar, but it was apparently long enough for Tamara to just about lose her mind.  And instead of Daniel saying, "wait a minute, I created Tamara from Zoe, maybe I can RE-create Zoe from Tamara!" he (according to his talk with Joseph, and he had no reason to lie) just frakkin' ASSUMED that, since he screwed up putting Zoe in the robot (and he thought she was destroyed), somehow for no reason Tamara was destroyed as well.  In fact, even if Zoe was gone for good (i.e. he couldn't use Tamara to re-create the ghost), I'd think he'd want to chat with the only other entity to share her form of existence.  And as I said he had an unknown but substantial amount of time to realize all this.  Adama only came back after he regretted walking away the first time, right?  It wasn't right away.

Didn't the "she is gone" thing happen AFTER Adama couldn't find her.

As for wanting to talk to Tamara... not really sure.

I think the not being able to recreate them thing is supposed to have something to do with the whole analog and "random generation" thing as well somehow, like the above... she won't have the same memories since then and therefore be similiar to his daughter yet completly different.  Like so many fake trees.  For example, though I haven't watched it... I believe the many different cylons that are based on the same people...the numbers have totally different personalties right?   So not every 5 will look or act the same and often have differing opinions on various subjects. 

 

None of that really nags at me though... what bothers me is that it seems obvious that he should know Zoe is in the robot.  Lets see... we copied their prototype exactly... yet it doesn't work.

What's different about the prototype that isn't like the others.  It would take me about 5 seconds to go "Oh yeah i tried to put my dead daughter into the cylon."

That and his hilariously dickish attitude about "Creating a sentient race of beings... that we can enslave!" 

Onyxmeth said: rocketpig said: Onyxmeth said: BSG's last season was horrific. I don't mind giving this show a chance if the mojo is there again with the creators.  I think the first half of season four was kinda shit but I thought it picked up nicely and closed everything up in the end. I have very few complaints with the series because I've NEVER been completely satisfied with a series' end and at least BSG didn't leave a bad taste in my mouth. I mean, damn, look at Lost. At this point, I'm convinced the writers are wearing entire sheets of acid in their britches while getting lap dances from rent-a-strippers and doing copious amounts of blow off what is supposed to be the script. Comparatively speaking, BSG did a pretty good job with their dangling plot lines. Lost was from beginning to end about two things. Characters going towards and dealing with their fates and the mystery of the island. In Season 6 it's more about that than ever. If you're talking about how weird everything is in general, Lost has always been weird, has always gotten weirder as the series has progressed, so it was natural it would be something totally different by the end than when it started. The show has never had to speed everything up considerably to fit in all the answers by the end, which shows it's had better planning than BSG did. Then again it also wasn't cancelled.  BSG abandoned far too many of it's themes to play story wrap up, and I can still name off numerous things, major things that were never tied up or explained. Not to mention Season 4.5 addressed the great political unrest of the series for two episodes only, and then threw it out the airlock...literally. The season was a huge mashup of crap just so they could fast track it to good earth only 10 or so episodes after finding nuclear earth. While I agree you're right that BSG handled the delicate balances for quite a while, that all fell to shit the moment they had to close the series.

I'm sorry, I love ya, Onyx, but that's complete bullshit.

Lost spent FIVE SEASONS explaining virtually nothing and now, 6 episodes into the last season, they finally stopped assing around and started answering maybe 2-3 of the 500 questions asked in previous seasons. If anything, that shows they had ZERO planning going into season three and four. Lost has been all about asking questions and never answering any of them. It's a hallmark of the show. Shit, they've had somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 episodes previous to season six and what did they answer? Who the Others were? What, past that, did they really explain without opening the door to 100 more questions in the meantime? Shit, they didn't even answer the Others question. Now there's some crazy temple that somehow outstrips the Others settlement and invalidates their entire existence in the first place.

As for BSG, I agree that they tied up the series too quickly. On the other hand, what series has ended well with that many questions opened in previous seasons? I thought they did an adequate job. But Lost... they've handled almost every question in the shittiest way possible and that's with another question. How do you POSSIBLY think they'll tie up the ~50,000 loose ends they have dangling in the next 6-7 episodes?

Really, I like Lost but you have to admit its weaknesses. It's a classic bait-and-switch show. All they do is replace a question with another question. That's not good planning, that's just feeding your audience televised crack to keep them watching.

Kasz216 said: Final-Fan said: Kasz216 said: Final-Fan said: It's pretty good, but there are some things that don't really make sense to me. For instance, Daniel Graystone apparently takes zero precautions like backing up the program/data his daughter's ghost is made from [edit:  before sticking it in an experimental robot with a stolen chip he doesn't even fully understand], and then when that goes wrong he just ASSUMES that Adama's daughter somehow disappeared as well instead of finding out, which he could easily check. (This is even more nonsensical since Tamara's ghost was created based on Zoe's, and he should, I think, have been able to do the same thing in reverse. Kind of an incentive to think of this possibility.) I think Tamara disapearing is exactly why he can't recreate Zoe.  He didn't backup Zoe because as you stated... he could always just remake her if their were an error... and would he really want two versions of his daughter around?  Wouldn't that just be weird if he succeded and he had this backup... which as we saw with Tamara is never really off and would just forever be in that virtual world?  Besides he's super genius Daniel Greystone.  He's going to make a mistake? So I think he was going to recreate her, though without some of the expiernces she had since her death, which raises questions about if it's still her since vital imput data is gone. Then when he brought Adama to see her daughter... suddenly her daughter is gone.  How did she get out?  She couldn't have without someone hacking Tamara out... or if Zoe's original programing was flawed... and somehow the program degrades after a while. Now who could of hacked Tamara out into the V-world?  Only two people know of her existance.  Daniel himself... and Joseph... who doesn't know shit about computers. Well obviously at this point the window of opportunity is pretty much gone ... but a lot of time passed between these events.  I'm fuzzy on the calendar, but it was apparently long enough for Tamara to just about lose her mind.  And instead of Daniel saying, "wait a minute, I created Tamara from Zoe, maybe I can RE-create Zoe from Tamara!" he (according to his talk with Joseph, and he had no reason to lie) just frakkin' ASSUMED that, since he screwed up putting Zoe in the robot (and he thought she was destroyed), somehow for no reason Tamara was destroyed as well.  In fact, even if Zoe was gone for good (i.e. he couldn't use Tamara to re-create the ghost), I'd think he'd want to chat with the only other entity to share her form of existence.  And as I said he had an unknown but substantial amount of time to realize all this.  Adama only came back after he regretted walking away the first time, right?  It wasn't right away.  Didn't the "she is gone" thing happen AFTER Adama couldn't find her. As for wanting to talk to Tamara... not really sure. I think the not being able to recreate them thing is supposed to have something to do with the whole analog and "random generation" thing as well somehow, like the above... she won't have the same memories since then and therefore be similiar to his daughter yet completly different.  Like so many fake trees.  For example, though I haven't watched it... I believe the many different cylons that are based on the same people...the numbers have totally different personalties right?   So not every 5 will look or act the same and often have differing opinions on various subjects.  None of that really nags at me though... what bothers me is that it seems obvious that he should know Zoe is in the robot.  Lets see... we copied their prototype exactly... yet it doesn't work. What's different about the prototype that isn't like the others.  It would take me about 5 seconds to go "Oh yeah i tried to put my dead daughter into the cylon." That and his hilariously dickish attitude about "Creating a sentient race of beings... that we can enslave!"

Well, the way I recall it is that: 1. Daniel meets Zoe. 2. Daniel catures her, kicks out person who showed him to her. 3. Daniel makes Tamara based on Zoe for Joe. Tamara doesn't know what the situation is (which Zoe did, having made the program) and freaks out; Joe (IIRC) quits the Ghost Talking Club. 4. After brief acquaintance, Daniel figures that he can put Zoe into an experimental robot that sucks at its job combined with an experimental chip he has basically only second-hand knowledge of that he has to steal from someone, and thinks the result will be awesome and without problems. 5. He's wrong, Zoe disappears. But the robot is awesome at its job now! Daniel has no idea why. 6. He shows off the robot to people, etc. etc. (IIRC) Joe has second thoughts about Tamara but apparently Daniel is feeling snobby so he gives Joe the brush-off. 7. Joe goes back to Daniel and insists. Daniel checks that Tamara exists but doesn't actually peek in to verify; shortly thereafter, Zoe finds Tamara, who has gone from hysterical to (IIRC) amnesiac. Thinking she is an experiment of Daniel's rather than an actual person like herself, Zoe simply turns her loose in the V-world. 8. Joe comes in to see his daughter. Daniel feels this is a good time to mention: "Oh yeah, by the way, we left her alone in the dark for all this time." Joe is not pleased by this development, but is more upset by the fact that Tamara is gone. Daniel chalks it up to a false positive in the computer.