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Forums - Gaming - At what point do RPG elements = RPG?

As someone once said, computer (or console) based RPGs do not match with what is typically thought of to be the original definition of a 'Role Playing Game'. That is, a person playing a Pen and Paper RPG taking upon a 'role' and and playing a 'game'.

That said, the early RPGs did try to follow the formulas set by Pen and Paper RPGs, but emulating it in a style that would be playable in a video format. These early games, such as Ultima and Wizardry, had to make changes that would make the game both playable and fun to a medium that was very different from the Pen and Paper setting. But in hindsight, it was a logical transition, as Pen and Paper RPGs were built based on using your imagination due to a lack of a video medium to express things like battle animation and character stats.

The transition of RPGs that followed loosely built on the ideas of these early video based RPGs, such as Ultima and Wizardry, but later such games as Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy. And later, other RPGs came out trying to further innovate away from those games. Much of the RPGs you see in todays market are not so much games trying to 'return to the ways of original RPGs', but moreso just RPGs trying to further differentiate themselves from the 'big name' RPGs of the past like Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy and Ultima.



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firebolt126 said:
Ok, this is what an RPG is for me, and what I look for in an RPG.

Levels - Usually 99+
Stats - This is very common in many games. Gotta love them.
Exploration - Explore the landscape, terrain, city..etc. Doesn't have to be vast or open, but enough to call exploring.
Abilities - Common attack and magic abilities.
Combat system - A combat system, usually much deeper and more strategic than those of action-based games.
Shops - Lots of upgrades after all the grindings and lootings.
Towns - This isn't exactly required, because some game doesn't necessarily have them, it just nice to have them for many type of RPGs though.
Secret Boss/Area - More things to do once the game is beaten.
Sidequestss - Time to take a break and do some side stuff before continuing the journey.
Items - Everything from looting the city of pots, to enemies, drops, treasures, and more.
Characters - Can't have a game without some character(s). Character developing is also important, but not crucial.
Story - It wouldn't be necessarily be an RPG without the storyline. Of course, some game lack a story.
Minigames - Not necessary, but it add alot of fun to the element of RPG. Who doesn't want to take a break after a long walk to play some blitzball or whatnot? It's good to take a breather every once and a while because saving the world isn't easy.
Complex game design - This isn't entirely necessary, but I find it very important to the type of RPGs I like to play. What I mean by complex game desgin is additional things that will add to the gameplay, such as taming, pet, fusion/breeding, overdrive, cards, alchemy, craft, smith, and anything that will add to the gameplay.

Those are what I like look for in an RPG. And RPG differ greatly from one type to another. Strategy, hack-n-slash type, action, shooting elements, action meter, cards, dialogue roleplay...and more


Sounds like GTA: San Andreas



d21lewis said:
Really. Because I have NO idea how Mass Effect 2 or Valkyria Chronicles fall into the category of RPG. If those games do, I have no idea how Borderlands does not.


How is Mass Effect 2 not an RPG? There's no inventory system, but there's still levelling up and upgrades. Also, it's a common misconception that RPGs should absolutely have those elements anyway. RPGs should be about playing or taking on the role of a character in the world, and Mass Effect 2 probably does that better than any game I can recollect.



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I've thought about that a lot as well.

I've come to the conclusion that as no video game ever can emulate Pen and Paper RPGs, none of them can be considered true RPGs.

Besides, genres have been merging so maybe in a while we'll just stop categorizing stuff and say that a game just has different gameplay aspects.



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Qual é, Dadinho...?

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I would not ask about quantum physics on a electrical engineering forum. Simply because electrical engineers only know about the elements of physics related to the area they need. As such the question of what is an RPG or what makes an RPG is not best answered in a forum that is far from the source of RPG themselves. Your best bet is www.rpg.net

I will however attempt to clear up what makes an RPG what it is.

Avatar/Character, Choice and Consequence
In essence the Role you play defines your experience(I don't mean XP point) path as a player. Characters who are social can talk through a situation a fighter will have to fight through.

An example. Dixon(A weapons engineer) is being held hostage by his ex mistress who is pissed off at him. She is going to kill him. As a fighter type it is a near zero chance to talk her down. In the attempt to save him Dixon dies. Consequence is that you can't get any weapons Dixon provides down the road. Your games experience has changed based on what you can and can't do.

On the other hand a socialist might be able to talk her out of it. Not only that a particularly persuasive person of the opposing gender may be able to talk the lady into being a contact.

Consequence to success or failure.

If your game play is the same regardless of the choices you make or lack of choices. Then it's not an RPG. Failure even in combat need to lead to a consequence and allow the path of the story to change. If failure does not allow your path to change then that part of the game does not assist in the RPG element of the game.



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phxprovost said:
Lurker said:
There's more to RPGs than just leveling systems and stuff. They need to be somewhat lengthy, offer sidequests, dialog conversations and choices. Yeah you can upgrade your magic and abilities in a game like God of War, but calling it an RPG would be foolish.

But by that standered what would you consider demons souls?  Theres pretty much no dialog in the game that really has any bearing on anything, you can honostly beat the game while only talking to 2 people.  The game only really has one side quest  and thats to get the northern regalia.  And the only choice you really have in the game is to kill everyone you come across or to  kill almost everyone you come across.  Yet I personally consider the game an rpg.

It's an action dungeon crawler style RPG. You get to create your character, pick from classes and have lots of skills to level. It's definitely an RPG, just not a real story focused one.



If you can't take off your pants its not an RPG. Tim believes it so it must be true.



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.jayderyu said:
I would not ask about quantum physics on a electrical engineering forum. Simply because electrical engineers only know about the elements of physics related to the area they need. As such the question of what is an RPG or what makes an RPG is not best answered in a forum that is far from the source of RPG themselves. Your best bet is www.rpg.net

I will however attempt to clear up what makes an RPG what it is.

Avatar/Character, Choice and Consequence
In essence the Role you play defines your experience(I don't mean XP point) path as a player. Characters who are social can talk through a situation a fighter will have to fight through.


An example. Dixon(A weapons engineer) is being held hostage by his ex mistress who is pissed off at him. She is going to kill him. As a fighter type it is a near zero chance to talk her down. In the attempt to save him Dixon dies. Consequence is that you can't get any weapons Dixon provides down the road. Your games experience has changed based on what you can and can't do.

On the other hand a socialist might be able to talk her out of it. Not only that a particularly persuasive person of the opposing gender may be able to talk the lady into being a contact.

Consequence to success or failure.

If your game play is the same regardless of the choices you make or lack of choices. Then it's not an RPG. Failure even in combat need to lead to a consequence and allow the path of the story to change. If failure does not allow your path to change then that part of the game does not assist in the RPG element of the game.

There it is, folks.

And yes, this means that Heavy Rain, with its choices and consequences, has more claim to the RPG mantle than any Final Fantasy game ever made.



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RPG Elements is a buzz word (or words I guess), not much else.

It's something publishers put on the back of boxes to lure more people into the game so I wouldn't put too much thought into it.



videogames = RPG

so the question has to be delimited to :
the RPG type videogames ?
or the Role Playing Game in general ?



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