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Forums - Gaming - Forget 7 - EDGE given FFXIII a 5!

r505Matt said:
zone16 said:
V-r0cK said:
jonnhytesta said:
kowenicki said:
well we cant even say they dont like JRPG's

they gave Demons Soul a 9/10

demons souls is not a jrpg. and yes they dont like them.

how's demon's souls not a jrpg?

Jrpg is a title given to a specific rpg genre that comes out of Japan. Demons Souls doesn't fit the descrpition of this specific genre thus it's not a jrpg.

Um, From Software, you know the developer that made Demon's Souls, is a Japanese developer. Demon's Souls is a JRPG.

Did you even read what I said? People did not started to label jrpgs just because they were made in Japan. It was because their rpgs were much different from the traditional ones. Jrpg is a genre.



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r505Matt said:
Alic0004 said:
I know that Edge grades on a wider scale in general. I also haven't played the game, so I can't really offer any judgment. However, I will say this:

A game being polished is different from a game simply not having glaring or game-breaking bugs. The number of really polished video games we get every year is actually very small, and I do think that a highly polished game (say one that offers a smoother experience than 99% of the other games released every year) should indeed get above a mediocre or average score, whether or not the reviewer agrees with the design philosophies of the game. You don't give Starcraft a mediocre review just because you've never liked an RTS -- you grade it mainly based on its execution.

Second, it seems to me JRPGs are getting the stuffing beaten out of them by reviewers this generation. Again, I don't know whether FFXIII is an incredibly polished game (it may just be the graphics) but reviewing something based on the direction you think games should go in or based on the type of games you prefer and want to see more of is not something that video game reviews have done very much in the past. If it becomes more standard to do so, reviews may behave very differently in the future. For example, if I were to honestly review first person shooters on consoles, based on the amount of enjoyment I get out of them, most would average around a four or five, with a few going up as high as seven. Again, I'm not saying that's what's going on with FFXIII, but if it is a very polished and well-executed game I think there will be a pretty clear trend of extremely polished JRPGs getting review scores that rank them next to cheap movie game tie-ins and shovelware, and if that's the case, the fanbase for JRPGs needs to start making some (fucking) noise.

But there's a difference between polished and fun, and that distinction seems to be forgotten. A game can be very very polished and still at it's core lack a high level of entertainment or enjoyment.

The review seems to center on the reviewer's belief that essentially, the first half of the game is BORING. And he needs to review based on what people as a whole, not just JRPG fans, would like and believe. Just because a few million people would not find it boring, doesn't mean the other ~50 million gamers won't, and that's important to think about to when reviewing. He can't just cater to the JRPG fans, he has to review it as a gamer. After reading the review, it looks like he does that.

It's my hope that he isn't reviewing it for all the people who aren't going to play the game, just as people didn't review Halo and Call of Duty for all the Moms who bought Wii Fit.

 

If that is the case, all I can say to those who think this is a good idea is, enjoy the day when your favorite kind of video game becomes the special project of reviewers to tell people stay away from, and the zeitgeist in the video game world turns so against what you enjoy that you worry about whether or not you'll still be playing games at all in a few years.

 

    I'm actually not reading the review because I want to avoid spoilers and having to think about a bunch of other people's opinions when I'm playing the game, so take my worries with a grain of salt.  I'm just voicing what I think I may be talking about after I play the game, assuming I like it.  I'm definirely worried that there seems to be a trend against JRPGs, even when their execution is near flawless.

 



 

Reading the various reviews leads me to believe the game is too linear for my tastes, but for someone that enjoys this type of RPG it sounds like a very well polished game.



zone16 said:
r505Matt said:
zone16 said:
V-r0cK said:
jonnhytesta said:
kowenicki said:
well we cant even say they dont like JRPG's

they gave Demons Soul a 9/10

demons souls is not a jrpg. and yes they dont like them.

how's demon's souls not a jrpg?

Jrpg is a title given to a specific rpg genre that comes out of Japan. Demons Souls doesn't fit the descrpition of this specific genre thus it's not a jrpg.

Um, From Software, you know the developer that made Demon's Souls, is a Japanese developer. Demon's Souls is a JRPG.

Did you even read what I said? People did not started to label jrpgs just because they were made in Japan. It was because their rpgs were much different from the traditional ones. Jrpg is a genre.

Actually I skipped over a couple word sillily -.- haha my bad.

But I don't think there's agreement there. Some people think JRPG means Japanese RPG (I think this) and that means all RPGs from Japan are JRPGS, and WRPGS are all "western" RPGs. Obviously, not everyone feels that way, but I think it's somewhere around 50/50 or 40/60 on whether JRPG refers to region or genre. Not even sure which might be dominant. This is just from my experiences on this forum though, so I don't even know as a whole. I'd think of it as a Medieval RPG if we're talking genre.



JRPG is a genre, guys... We don't call them J-Racing Simulators or W-Racing Simulators if they're made in Japan or the West.

Black Sigil: Blade of Exiled is a JRPG made by Canadians.

I know this is a confusing point, but there's a reason we distinguish between Japan and the West for RPGs, and it's because the style is fundamentally different, not because RPG players are obsessed with geography...



 

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Alic0004 said:
r505Matt said:
Alic0004 said:
I know that Edge grades on a wider scale in general. I also haven't played the game, so I can't really offer any judgment. However, I will say this:

A game being polished is different from a game simply not having glaring or game-breaking bugs. The number of really polished video games we get every year is actually very small, and I do think that a highly polished game (say one that offers a smoother experience than 99% of the other games released every year) should indeed get above a mediocre or average score, whether or not the reviewer agrees with the design philosophies of the game. You don't give Starcraft a mediocre review just because you've never liked an RTS -- you grade it mainly based on its execution.

Second, it seems to me JRPGs are getting the stuffing beaten out of them by reviewers this generation. Again, I don't know whether FFXIII is an incredibly polished game (it may just be the graphics) but reviewing something based on the direction you think games should go in or based on the type of games you prefer and want to see more of is not something that video game reviews have done very much in the past. If it becomes more standard to do so, reviews may behave very differently in the future. For example, if I were to honestly review first person shooters on consoles, based on the amount of enjoyment I get out of them, most would average around a four or five, with a few going up as high as seven. Again, I'm not saying that's what's going on with FFXIII, but if it is a very polished and well-executed game I think there will be a pretty clear trend of extremely polished JRPGs getting review scores that rank them next to cheap movie game tie-ins and shovelware, and if that's the case, the fanbase for JRPGs needs to start making some (fucking) noise.

But there's a difference between polished and fun, and that distinction seems to be forgotten. A game can be very very polished and still at it's core lack a high level of entertainment or enjoyment.

The review seems to center on the reviewer's belief that essentially, the first half of the game is BORING. And he needs to review based on what people as a whole, not just JRPG fans, would like and believe. Just because a few million people would not find it boring, doesn't mean the other ~50 million gamers won't, and that's important to think about to when reviewing. He can't just cater to the JRPG fans, he has to review it as a gamer. After reading the review, it looks like he does that.

It's my hope that he isn't reviewing it for all the people who aren't going to play the game, just as people didn't review Halo and Call of Duty for all the Moms who bought Wii Fit.

 

If that is the case, all I can say to those who think this is a good idea is, enjoy the day when your favorite kind of video game becomes the special project of reviewers to tell people stay away from, and the zeitgeist in the video game world turns so against what you enjoy that you worry about whether or not you'll still be playing games at all in a few years.

 

    I'm actually not reading the review because I want to avoid spoilers and having to think about a bunch of other people's opinions when I'm playing the game, so take my worries with a grain of salt.  I'm just voicing what I think I may be talking about after I play the game, assuming I like it.

That's a good point, and I didn't mean to suggest a reviewer should review for every gamer in mind, but I guess I did suggest that -.-

But, I think he looked at it from the perspective of ALL gamers that would even think of trying it, so it might not include the Wii Fit moms, but it could include the ME2 fans. And he seems to comment on the pacing of the game with that in mind.

There are no spoilers really, but essentially, the main thing I read and disliked was a mention of a SLOW progression curve for the battle system. He mentioned that the game would introduce a gameplay mechanic, and then you would need to spam it for a bunch of fights, then a new mechanic, spam that, etc. I personally prefer, give me everything or mostly everything at once, and maybe make some things more relevant at certain times, but don't baby me into it. It's kind of condescending and patronizing like the game would be telling me "No really, you can't handle this, take it slow".



numonex said:
Edge is the leading European reviewer. Their opinion counts. I expected a 6 but a 5 it means the game must have some serious issues.

*Runs and cancels pre-order of FFXIII. Waiting for it to be in bargain bins.

 

ya ok I highly doubt you had it for pre order since it's so damn easy to convince you not to get it. Edge also gave dragon age a 5/10 what a hooorible game that was eh mrite?!



Alic0004 said:
JRPG is a genre, guys... We don't call them J-Racing Simulators or W-Racing Simulators if they're made in Japan or the West.

Black Sigil: Blade of Exiled is a JRPG made by Canadians.

I know this is a confusing point, but there's a reason we distinguish between Japan and the West for RPGs, and it's because the style is fundamentally different, not because RPG players are obsessed with geography...

It's confusing when even mags like Game Informer say it's "one of the first truly great Japanese RPGs of this generation, and certainly the most remarkable." Some people see that and think "JRPG"

To me, SRPG, action-rpg, Turn-based RPG; those are genres. JRPG doesn't scream "genre" to me. I don't know, maybe this is really just my way of viewing it, but I'll stop now haha.

 



Damn, numonex must have had to cancel XIII about 100x times now. Seriously every other post is about him canceling a pre-order. I guarantee you though he will be one of the first in-line.



Well, it was kinda expected, plus their review isn't that bad, just that the linearity let them down big time.

Plus, they gave Dragon Age a 5 too, so FFXIII = DA:O is really awesome in my book :P



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