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Forums - General Discussion - Liberalism, atheism, male sexual exclusivity linked to IQ

TheRealMafoo said:
ManusJustus said:
TheRealMafoo said:

Part of being a free country, is the freedom to be an asshole. I get the right to take the results of my efforts, and do whatever the hell I want with them.

That simply isn't true.  Everyone in our society is dependent on other people.  Who built the university where you got your education, who built the road that connects your property to the economy, who desposes of your waste products, who came up with the idea for electric light bulbs, or processed food, or a drinkable water supply, or the process by which your clothes were produced, and the list goes on and on. 

For any person to think that the fruits they reap are solely from their own efforts is a fool, and they should go live in the jungle where their actions no longer have a negative effect on the rest of us, and society's positive actions no longer benefit them.  Welcome to civilization, founded 7000 BC.

Well we each feel the other to be a fool, so continuing is just... well... foolish.

All I can do is shake my head that that post, and say wow... Nothing more to say really.

All I can do is feel sorry for you, or better yet feel sorry for the society in which you live in since you are not beneficial to it.

Tell me, did you earn everything that you accomplished in life all by yourself?  Did you invent the computer you are typing on right now, did you invent the heating system that keeps you warm in winter, did you invent the refrigerator that keeps your food cold, and so forth?



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You don't know about Capitalism at all, do you?

Invent the computer? No, but I paid for it. And the inventor was well rewarded for his efforts...are we all to pay a royalty to him for every association of our lives that are generated via a computer?



The rEVOLution is not being televised

ManusJustus said:
Kasz216 said:

Come back when you have data, or learn to not be a tool of either party.

I've presented a more logical argument than you could ever dream of constructing.  All I get from you is this study says 6% and this says 30%, but you are unable to think about and apply reasoning to the data you present.  Anyone with half a brain knows that urban expenses are higher than rural expenses, that it isn't as charitable when someone requires rewards for their gift, and so forth.  The fact that I would even have to bring these points up is sad on your part.

Should be not count people who feel good because they donate to charity too?  If I give 20 dollars to a guy on the street and feel a little better about myself... should that suddenly not count?

Finally, you are starting to think more rationally about qualitative data.  This is just another item in the cost / benefit analysis that people go through in everyday life, including decisions regarding donating to charity.  And no, you are not going to be able to quantify it and say that feeling good about yourself is worth 29% of the donation so conservatives are still 8% more charitable.

No you haven't.  Because you know... no data.

Also, your still cherry picking and missing basic data.

For example... Rural vs Urban.


When taking Indiana in example... the average cost of living is 7,000 dollars more for Urban then Rural.

The average salary in an urban area is 9,000 dollars more in Urban places then Rural.

 

In general though, Cost of living is proprotionate with how much money you can make.  Rural areas have less cost of living, because people in rural areas make less money... and as such it is a statistically insignificant arguement.  Which you would of known... had you bothered to look up the data. 

This is your problem, you always make wild arguements based on nothing, without doing your legwork.



Viper1 said:
ManusJustus said:
TheRealMafoo said:

Part of being a free country, is the freedom to be an asshole. I get the right to take the results of my efforts, and do whatever the hell I want with them.

That simply isn't true.  Everyone in our society is dependent on other people.  Who built the university where you got your education, who built the road that connects your property to the economy, who desposes of your waste products, who came up with the idea for electric light bulbs, or processed food, or a drinkable water supply, or the process by which your clothes were produced, and the list goes on and on. 

For any person to think that the fruits they reap are solely from their own efforts is a fool, and they should go live in the jungle where their actions no longer have a negative effect on the rest of us, and society's positive actions no longer benefit them.  Welcome to civilization, founded 7000 BC.

Then are you suggesting we embrace extreme socialism?


No, I'm simplying stating that we should appreciate what others in society have done for us.  You don't have to adopt socialism to realize that the school you attended was built by those who came before you, or that the idea you got rich off of was the continuation of someone else's idea, or that the business you built was made possible because of a strangers hard work in your field, or that the car you drive to work was made possible by the hard work of others, and so forth.

For people to think that society hasn't helped them accomplish things in life is sad and foolish.



ManusJustus said:
TheRealMafoo said:
ManusJustus said:
TheRealMafoo said:

Part of being a free country, is the freedom to be an asshole. I get the right to take the results of my efforts, and do whatever the hell I want with them.

That simply isn't true.  Everyone in our society is dependent on other people.  Who built the university where you got your education, who built the road that connects your property to the economy, who desposes of your waste products, who came up with the idea for electric light bulbs, or processed food, or a drinkable water supply, or the process by which your clothes were produced, and the list goes on and on. 

For any person to think that the fruits they reap are solely from their own efforts is a fool, and they should go live in the jungle where their actions no longer have a negative effect on the rest of us, and society's positive actions no longer benefit them.  Welcome to civilization, founded 7000 BC.

Well we each feel the other to be a fool, so continuing is just... well... foolish.

All I can do is shake my head that that post, and say wow... Nothing more to say really.

All I can do is feel sorry for you, or better yet feel sorry for the society in which you live in since you are not beneficial to it.

Tell me, did you earn everything that you accomplished in life all by yourself?  Did you invent the computer you are typing on right now, did you invent the heating system that keeps you warm in winter, did you invent the refrigerator that keeps your food cold, and so forth?

No, however I rewarded the people who did, by paying them. No one gave me a computer, or a refrigerator. I earned them.

You can feel sorry for me all you want, but the people that get to eat due to my donations like me very much. I feel sorry for anyone who wants to live in a world where all there efforts are taken away from them, because they agree others know better what to do with them.



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Kasz216 said:

No you haven't.  Because you know... no data.

Again with the simple mindedness.  Its not my job to hold your hand and direcrt you to reading on economic cost/benefit analysis, or the myriad of other ideas we've discussed, if you can call my presenting of valid talking points to a wall and your pointless dribble a discussion.  If you can put an actual dollar amount for every individual on a qualitative item, such as feeling good about yourself, then please push forward becaue you are going to blow the socks off of everybody and every academic field. 

I'll ask that you re-read my above posts if you actually want to improve on your false ideas, specifically your quantification of qualitative data, as conversing with you simply isn't worth my time.



ManusJustus said:
Kasz216 said:

No you haven't.  Because you know... no data.

Again with the simple mindedness.  Its not my job to hold your hand and direcrt you to reading on economic cost/benefit analysis, or the myriad of other ideas we've discussed, if you can call my presenting of valid talking points to a wall and your pointless dribble a discussion.  If you can put an actual dollar amount for every individual on a qualitative item, such as feeling good about yourself, then please push forward becaue you are going to blow the socks off of everybody and every academic field. 

I'll ask that you re-read my above posts if you actually want to improve on your false ideas, specifically your quantification of qualitative data, as conversing with you simply isn't worth my time.

So let me see if I understand...

Kaz and I are the idiots here, and your the one who's intellect is beyond reproach. You know, if you look at this discussion with the possibility that just maybe, your wrong, this could have been so much more constructive.



TheRealMafoo said:

No, however I rewarded the people who did, by paying them. No one gave me a computer, or a refrigerator. I earned them.

So you came out of the womb with a large bank account which you used to pay for everything in life?  Mom and dad didn't give you anything, your teachers didn't spend time helping you with things that they weren't exclusively paid for, friends or strangers never gave you a helping hand, your ancestors and countrymen didn't give their lives and resources so that you would be able to succeed?

Its sad, it really is, that a person could think such a thing.  You seem to be more intelligent that Kasz, so I'll give you one example of how you owe society.  You don't have to answer, just think about it. 

Do you think you would be just as successful as you are today if instead of being born in America you were born in Zimbabwe?



ManusJustus said:
Kasz216 said:

No you haven't.  Because you know... no data.

Again with the simple mindedness.  Its not my job to hold your hand and direcrt you to reading on economic cost/benefit analysis, or the myriad of other ideas we've discussed, if you can call my presenting of valid talking points to a wall and your pointless dribble a discussion.  If you can put an actual dollar amount for every individual on a qualitative item, such as feeling good about yourself, then please push forward becaue you are going to blow the socks off of everybody and every academic field. 

I'll ask that you re-read my above posts if you actually want to improve on your false ideas, specifically your quantification of qualitative data, as conversing with you simply isn't worth my time.

So... i proved you wrong about cost of living... and this is what your hiding behind?  An argument you yourself just dismissed motnhs ago

When I made such a comment about Healthcare comparisons between nations you thought such a concept was ridiculious, even though there... the other variables were actually VERY real.  When actual cultural differences actually effected the thing being measured?  Health?

 

Data such as how good you feel about yourself after donating is IRRELVENT... it's already a part of the people who are being measured... since what we are measuring is people as a whole who hold these two ideas.   Saying conservatives give more money because it makes them feel better about themselves then liberals who give more money... even if true is completely irrelevent. Turn a Liberal into a consrevative and you've change a lot about the person... likely including their thoughts about giving to charity.

 

Also, no i wouldn't "blow the socks off of everyone" by putting an actual dollar form on each individual qualitative item... such scales and systems actually do exist... and have for a VERY long time. 

Maybe it's your lack of knowledge about psychology and sociology... but it's actually a fairly simple procedure.  It's used in Consumer Marketing CONSTANTLY.

For stuff like finding out how much Coca Cola's nostalgic taste is worth to the customer... etc.


You very much could test exactly how much that "good" feeling for the average person is worth to them.  Charities actually do this you know... so they know who to target and what amount of donations is just the right amount to ask for.

Sometimes asking for ten will get you 25 while asking for 20 will get you nothing.

It's really a pedestrian thing to figure out... you just need a large grant and a team backing you up to do it. 

It's also... completly irrelevent with the topic at hand. 

 



ManusJustus said:
TheRealMafoo said:

No, however I rewarded the people who did, by paying them. No one gave me a computer, or a refrigerator. I earned them.

So you came out of the womb with a large bank account which you used to pay for everything in life?  Mom and dad didn't give you anything, your teachers didn't spend time helping you with things that they weren't exclusively paid for, friends or strangers never gave you a helping hand, your ancestors and countrymen didn't give their lives and resources so that you would be able to succeed?

Its sad, it really is, that a person could think such a thing.  You seem to be more intelligent that Kasz, so I'll give you one example of how you owe society.  You don't have to answer, just think about it. 

Do you think you would be just as successful as you are today if instead of being born in America you were born in Zimbabwe?

What you described is the act of humanity. Aside from a perental obligation, anyone who did anything outside of there requirements did so because of who they are. You can not manufacture that with government programs. If fact I would guess as government programs expand, the oposite would happen.

And Kaz is extremely intelligent.

Now let me ask you a question. If from 1776 to today, we had a government like you want, do you think living in the US and Zimbabwe would be any different?