I just don't see how government run healthcare could possibly be a good idea. I had enough issues getting my license at the chaotic DMV. I look at how corrupt our government is, how shoddily run things are, how many incompetent workers it employs, and I want these people charged with keeping me healthy?

And things aren't even that bad in Jefferson Parish, aside from the DMV. Things are 100x worse in the actual city of New Orleans, where it takes six months to resurface a simple road.

Fuck that.

I hate hearing all this talk about "revolution" and seeing video's of what look like al qaeda boot camps but for "tea baggers" (terrible name), and people showing up with assault rifles to rallies. Any "revolution" needs to be in a peaceful democratic way, because the people grabbing guns are not people you want forming a military down the street. I can only imagine a militia inspired by Glenn Beck rounding up any "progressives" or "liberals" to execute enemies of America. A civil war is the most heinous and ineffectual thing that could happen to this country but it seems like at more and more rallies people are casually dropping "I don't want this to get violent, but I will do what I have to to protect my country."

Congratulations, you've assassinated the president, killed off a large portion of congress and the senate, killed millions of innocent people with a different world view and installed a new government that is dedicated to upholding the constitution. I give it a decade before your new government has been purchased by the same groups that corrupted the current one. The problem is our government is corrupt and ineffectual, the reason is because they are all owned by business interests. Government is sick, and private industry is it's disease. The healthcare bill sucks, as kasz mentioned, because nobody is willing to deal with the drug companies which are the real problem. Every facet of government is corrupted by private industry and the calls to smash government and make it smaller are meaningless because private industry will do what it wants with the government. If it wants the government to be big enough to force you to buy products, or subsidize it's business, it will be that big. Go read about the bail bondsmen lobbies and how many billions of tax payer dollars are wasted every year just keeping that one industry alive, even though with modern technology it is a completely useless industry.

How is a revolution to take down our government going to make private industry stop buying politicians?

vagabond -

I think the question comes down to how best effect change in the government. Many people feel that no matter what is done by civil means, the politicians and their cronies simply destroy promises for the sake of 'their' good.

America is kind of in a catch-22. There are too many lazy, uncaring people electing lazy, uncaring politicians because they like to promise a lot, and deliver very little, as the people feel no responsibility for themselves. After all, when Bush wanted to go after Social Security reform, we had a situation to where there was much public outrage - people simply didn't want him hurting their retirement, despite the fact that SS is obviously bankrupt.

Better yet, look at California. Great example of people unwilling to make hard choices, and are getting destroyed for it....Yet still are wanting to take the easy way out.

mrstickball said: vagabond - I think the question comes down to how best effect change in the government. Many people feel that no matter what is done by civil means, the politicians and their cronies simply destroy promises for the sake of 'their' good. America is kind of in a catch-22. There are too many lazy, uncaring people electing lazy, uncaring politicians because they like to promise a lot, and deliver very little, as the people feel no responsibility for themselves. After all, when Bush wanted to go after Social Security reform, we had a situation to where there was much public outrage - people simply didn't want him hurting their retirement, despite the fact that SS is obviously bankrupt. Better yet, look at California. Great example of people unwilling to make hard choices, and are getting destroyed for it....Yet still are wanting to take the easy way out.

I definitely agree with that. But I also think that "HULK SMASH" is not a valid form of changing our government but more and more people with guns are getting themselves riled up watching Glenn beck (and friends) cry on TV telling them that the enemy of liberty is progressive liberal god hating atheists that put their faith in Big Government that just wants to steal your guns and your land and kill jesus, and that drastic action may be needed. That is not productive. And when I see intelligent people like Mafoo saying that revolt is necessary, it makes me wonder what kind of revolution he has in mind. I really hope it's an angry letter writing campaign.

Kasz216 said: MontanaHatchet said: It's actually amazing at how exponentially worse each president is over the last. At this point, I almost wish George W. Bush was still in office. And I'm wondering how anyone could outdo Obama at this point. I'm sure someone will try! I still look back fondly on Clinton personally. If gore would of beat bush he probably would of just kept clinton policy going, never making an inconveint truth and trying to cash in on the global warming stuff... and in general i think the world would of been a better place. 9/11 would of still happened, but No iraq war, maybe not even a FULL afghanistan war and instead a clintonesque just bomb the crap out of them without using any US lives until they give in and give us what we want. (Bin laden.) Probably would even have a REASONABLE good healthcare proposal too.

Oh man, Al Gore would have made a fucking awesome president. And even if he wouldn't have, he still would have been so much better than the alternative. When I think just how close we were to electing him, it makes me even more depressed. And I don't need much more of that. Anyways (more on topic), in order to save this country, we're going to have to make sacrifices. A lot of sacrifices. Unfortunately, no one is willing to make them.

MontanaHatchet said: Kasz216 said: MontanaHatchet said: It's actually amazing at how exponentially worse each president is over the last. At this point, I almost wish George W. Bush was still in office. And I'm wondering how anyone could outdo Obama at this point. I'm sure someone will try! I still look back fondly on Clinton personally. If gore would of beat bush he probably would of just kept clinton policy going, never making an inconveint truth and trying to cash in on the global warming stuff... and in general i think the world would of been a better place. 9/11 would of still happened, but No iraq war, maybe not even a FULL afghanistan war and instead a clintonesque just bomb the crap out of them without using any US lives until they give in and give us what we want. (Bin laden.) Probably would even have a REASONABLE good healthcare proposal too. Oh man, Al Gore would have made a fucking awesome president. And even if he wouldn't have, he still would have been so much better than the alternative. When I think just how close we were to electing him, it makes me even more depressed. And I don't need much more of that. Anyways (more on topic), in order to save this country, we're going to have to make sacrifices. A lot of sacrifices. Unfortunately, no one is willing to make them.

Yeah, probably... he was much better then the Al Gore we have now. Though we probably wouldn't of got his futurama appearences, but hey... small price. As for sacrficing... i don't know if people aren't willing... most people afterall don't want this healthcare plan. I don't, even though i'd go from paying 100 dollars a month to 0 dollars with no tax change. I think it's more that people won't vote for anyone who isn't their parties perfered candidate no matter how much they disagree with them. Far too much brand identity in us politcs

MontanaHatchet said: Kasz216 said: MontanaHatchet said: It's actually amazing at how exponentially worse each president is over the last. At this point, I almost wish George W. Bush was still in office. And I'm wondering how anyone could outdo Obama at this point. I'm sure someone will try! I still look back fondly on Clinton personally. If gore would of beat bush he probably would of just kept clinton policy going, never making an inconveint truth and trying to cash in on the global warming stuff... and in general i think the world would of been a better place. 9/11 would of still happened, but No iraq war, maybe not even a FULL afghanistan war and instead a clintonesque just bomb the crap out of them without using any US lives until they give in and give us what we want. (Bin laden.) Probably would even have a REASONABLE good healthcare proposal too. Oh man, Al Gore would have made a fucking awesome president. And even if he wouldn't have, he still would have been so much better than the alternative. When I think just how close we were to electing him, it makes me even more depressed. And I don't need much more of that. Anyways (more on topic), in order to save this country, we're going to have to make sacrifices. A lot of sacrifices. Unfortunately, no one is willing to make them.

Yeah, probably... he was much better then the Al Gore we have now. Though we probably wouldn't of got his futurama appearences, but hey... small price. As for sacrficing... i don't know if people aren't willing... most people afterall don't want this healthcare plan. I don't, even though i'd go from paying 100 dollars a month to 0 dollars with no tax change. I think it's more that people won't vote for anyone who isn't their parties perfered candidate no matter how much they disagree with them. Far too much brand identity in us politcs

I would have rather seen Gore then Bush...

But I am not sure everyone is fully comprehending what Obama just said today.

He basically said I don't care about the form of government we have. I want to change the rule because I think the people would not mind.

I have never seen in my life a sitting president say such things (and mean it). He did not try and finagle the healthcare bill into whatever constraints are needed for reconciliation. He doesn't care.

He wants this passed because he thinks it's what's best, so the hell with the rules. Just do whatever it takes.

This man should be impeached. He has no business being the leader of this country.

He ended it when talking about reconciliation with "that's what elections are for" if voters don't like his means.

No, that's what jail is for Mr Obama. You don't just get to do whatever you want because you think it's popular.

Fuck I am pissed!

Alright, this was 25% substantive discussion and 75% complaining, repetition, and sound bites. Oh well Obama, at least you tried.....

adriane23 said: Alright, this was 25% substantive discussion and 75% complaining, repetition, and sound bites. Oh well Obama, at least you tried.....

To pass something around 75% of America is against.