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Forums - Microsoft - Techland Demos Xbox's Project Natal

drkohler on 19 February 2010

.. and gave us only a few technical details:

* 3D camera

* IR camera

......

Sorry but this reads nothing more than an advertising blurb prepared by MS and already the first two points make it clear whoever wrote this has no clue. The IR camera (if it is a TOF camera) IS the 3D camera. The 3D camera is the "Eyetoy part" of Natal and has nothing to do with 3D. Also we still don't know how Natal tracks 4 people (in a standard living room, not an empty cubicle) and what the performance penalty is on the XBox if "everything is set on" (many players, voice recognition on at the same time). A list of "we are working on it" just doesn't cut it (especially for developers who still don't seem to have a reasonable programming interface).



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heruamon on 19 February 2010

This seems to be progressing nicely, and I don't suspect their being a problem with lag for simply games, but there might be an initial problem with early games, until programmer get more experience working with the system...this is why I think Natal games in 2-3 years from release are going to be incredible.



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

Rawnchie14 on 19 February 2010

Awesome, this system is looking extremely hopeful, and I'm looking forward to it this holiday season!



JaggedSac on 19 February 2010
drkohler said:

.. and gave us only a few technical details:

* 3D camera

* IR camera

......

Sorry but this reads nothing more than an advertising blurb prepared by MS and already the first two points make it clear whoever wrote this has no clue. The IR camera (if it is a TOF camera) IS the 3D camera. The 3D camera is the "Eyetoy part" of Natal and has nothing to do with 3D. Also we still don't know how Natal tracks 4 people (in a standard living room, not an empty cubicle) and what the performance penalty is on the XBox if "everything is set on" (many players, voice recognition on at the same time). A list of "we are working on it" just doesn't cut it (especially for developers who still don't seem to have a reasonable programming interface).

It is not a TOF camera. 

http://www.newscientist.com/commenting/browse?id=mg20527426.800&page=2

Kipman says: "Our IR does not pulse and it is not based on a TOF system (which usually pulses). Our light source is constant much like you would expect a projection system to work in a conference room."

 

For a comparable system, look at this link:

http://www.primesense.com/category/reference_design

Block Diagram

Specification
Property Spec
Field of View (Horizontal, Vertical, Diagonal) 58° H, 45° V, 70° D
Depth image size VGA (640x480)
Spatial x/y resolution (@ 2m distance from sensor) 3mm
Depth z resolution (@ 2m distance from sensor) 1cm
Maximum image throughput (frame rate) 60fps
Operation range 0.8m - 3.5m
Color image size UXGA (1600x1200)
Audio: built-in microphones Two mics
Audio: digital inputs Four inputs
Data interface USB 2.0
Power supply USB 2.0
Power consumption 2.25W
Dimensions (Width x Height x Depth) 14cm x 3.5cm x 5cm
Operation environment (every lighting condition) Indoor
Operating temperature 0°C - 40°C


drkohler on 19 February 2010

Thanks for the link. I can't really figure out how it exactly works from the vague description (and the light source is certainly NOT constant, you would get nothing out with that approach). However, using "dumb" cameras and sophisticated software would explain the low price of Natal. It does not really explain why MS bought out this Israely TOF company which promised a cheap TOF camera (but nobody really believed that anyway).



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JaggedSac on 19 February 2010
drkohler said:

Thanks for the link. I can't really figure out how it exactly works from the vague description (and the light source is certainly NOT constant, you would get nothing out with that approach). However, using "dumb" cameras and sophisticated software would explain the low price of Natal. It does not really explain why MS bought out this Israely TOF company which promised a cheap TOF camera (but nobody really believed that anyway).

Kipman is one of the engineers that works on Natal.  If he says the light is constant, the light is constant.  If he says it isn't TOF, it isn't TOF.



matt247 on 19 February 2010
megaman79 said:
matt247 said:
megaman79 said:
It tracks 11 points on your body. So thats 8 just from your limbs and i guess 2 from your body and head.

That game only tracks 11 points on your body, but Natal can track up to 45 points on your body.

For the sake of simplicity, and speed of processing, i would wonder why this game doesn't track more points.


Since its a demo it should demo the whole system.

Did you look at the game? It doesn't need to track 45 points; it's completly unnessesary. It would be like a PC game using every single button on the keyboard to control somethiong.



yo_john117 on 19 February 2010

Well this is good news, I can't wait to see the games that will work with natal.



WilliamWatts on 19 February 2010
STEKSTAV said:
The lag seems to still be there in the few shots that actually showed the tv and player at the same time. But it looks like fun. But i fear that that game is their A game.. i want more info on other games before i pass judgement.

Percieved lag is increased when you take a 30FPS video of a 30FPS interface.