Not that the company being bought by M$ was too blame for this. You have to willfully enter an agreement to sell your buisness. So where is M$ to blame for this? If these companies were about making a product and a name, they wouldn't have sold to M$ knowing they would do that. After it happens twice there's a pattern, which means any outside company should have known what was coming.

linkes to other sights aside. all i need to know is that the ps3 is 2x's (witch imo isn't mutch) more powerful then the 360.

how did this sad excuse for an argument start?

Learn to read please. I stated the 360 DVDs read in part faster and in part slower than a PS3 Blu-Ray disc.

The reason for that discussion was certain fans claiming the top speed of a single layered disc was the 360 DVD's speed. This also refers to certain people claiming the PS3's Blu-Ray drive is too slow. But modern PS3 games like God of War 3 and Uncharted 2 prove this to be incorrect.

I did read that thread very carefully MikeB and you didn't claim in part at all.  You said that the Bluray drive in the PS3 could read data quicker than a DVD, you then started quoting averages for a 2x Bluray drive and only a 8x DVD drive claiming the 360's drive was slower.  When it was proved to you the 360 DVD drive was 12x so all your figures were wrong and your conclusion incorrect you never admitted you were wrong.  I think you need to get your memory checked.  I and most other people in that thread didn't say that the Bluray drive was too slow for games either, we funnily enough were just out to prove that you got your facts wrong, nothing more or less.  It doesn't matter what other people might have claimed either by the way, you were still spreading misinformation as you weren't right either.

I try not to bring up peoples past history MikeB but this is your thread about your past comments you've made so I think it is appropriate to add balance when you claim others have been misinforming people.

It is ironic that you would raise the issue of people calling you stupid or insane, and then use this thread as your official means of rebuking such attacks.

The irony comes in the form of repeated attempts to illegitimately swing arguments through selective debate and reasoning, culminating in outright refusing to respond when someone just plain proves you to be incorrect.

This is all rather contrary to your statement that you concede when you're wrong on the last page.

I'll give you that though.  In this thread you really have displayed "none-sense'

I just debunked that the max speed of the 360 DVD is the average read speed (the read speed of the inner tracks are slower than Blu-Ray). I pointed out the average read speed of a Blu-Ray disc is constant. I did not compare a 8x speed DVD drive, but a 12x speed DVD drive (which for a dual layer DVD reads as fast as a 8x DVD drive reads a single layer DVD), for this I used a Beyond3D discussion (and linked manual) as a source. I stated I don't know the exact speed of all the different used DVD drives on the 360, but 360 developers would need to take into account the slowest models.

I also pointed out that seektimes on Blu-Ray disc are faster, because the data is packed closer together, but worst case scenarios are worse (but the seektime of swapping DVDs is of course much slower ). I pointed out that the constant streaming speed of Blu-Ray disc is an advantage for developers who want to optimise, because the overall read speed is more predictable.

I pointed out that single layer DVD 360 games can be read faster, but they are small (3.4 GB) to be fully installed on the PS3's harddrive anyhow, which always reads much faster.

So, it's not as black & white as you present here at all.

I prefer the PS3's Blu-Ray (over a 360 drive) for its capacity, great loading schemes (like God of War 3 and Uncharted 2), it being far more silent, discs being scratch resistent and the ability to playback Blu-Ray movies.

Note that discussion started because of repeated claims by 360 fans the PS3 Blu-Ray drive is far too slow.

The 360 drive reads discs at 12x in dual layer, you've been told this before and you're still propogating misinformation now MikeB. The seek times and everything esle are irrelevant, your base claim that raw transfer speed is faster is wrong, a Bluray 2x drive is slower. It doesn't matter how a converstaion was started you still kept spreading the misinformation which is the point of our little debate here. Can you ever just admit you were wrong?

@ slowmo

Like I said, I don't know the specs of all the different XBox 360 drives out there, I used the Beyond3D guys as a source, like I may include other information stated there as a source when I don't have the specs myself (like many people do, including many 360 fans).