i agree, you should be free to believe whatever you want, just obey the law and dont impede other peoples rights and freedoms

I'm sure this had nothing to do with Clinton inheriting a 7.3% unemployment rate following the recession years of Bush 41. Does the fact he basically cut that number in half over his 8 year term count for anything? Dubya's "average" rate may be lower, but he inherited the one of the lowest unemployment rates in modern history, and since then it's been trending in the opposite direction of Clinton's term, FWIW.

In almost every post, you claim that Obama's supporters are falling for propaganda, and that all media is lies and propaganda, and yet somehow McCain is telling the truth, or that you have a magical ability to see through bullshit that the rest of the public doesn't have because we're all kool-aid drinking sheep.

It's stupid.

It's elitist.

It's wrong.

Stop using "kool-aid," "brainwash," and "propaganda" in every post if you want people to read more than 2 or 3 of your comments.

I was attempting to use your argument against you to show you how attacking you instead of your ideas is fucking stupid. So attack my ideas, PLEASE. I'd love to have a debate with you if you weren't so annoying and would actually well, debate with anybody.


I wasn't insulting you for being a Protestant or believing the Bible. I was insulting you for liking Left Behind because I think it's batshit fucking nuts.


I have liberal beliefs because I think they are the best for society. Is that okay? Is it because I'm stupid? Or a sheep? Or immature? Am I supposed to grow out of it when I'm older or when I have more money? I guarantee I'd vote for personal freedoms over lower taxes any day of the week. I care far more about my body and my rights than my money.

I want to lock this thread so badly, and I might just do it. Every political thread in Off Topic has about the same people every time arguing about almost the same things every time. Everything in this thread, from the "Kool-aid" to the sarcasm...makes me want to puke. I hate Kool-Aid, and I hate this thread.

Anyways Rubang, there's no need to be harsh on Bigjon. He's an extreme conservative in New York, and thus, he's so used to hearing people who are liberal just because of growing up in the state/city that he obviously hasn't met the millions upon millions of brainwashed Republicans. Bigjon, each side is stupid, but using pathetic buzz words is not going to make yourself look superior. It's going to make yourself look like an elitist, which you probably are.

Yeah, and it was 100% bullshit.  Bill Clinton came in on a bad economy and turned it around into a good one.  It didn't take George Bush long to turn the trend around.

All you are doing is skewing the facts, just like with the graph with a huge graphical difference but less than 0.1 actual difference, not to mention that Bill Clinton brought it down in office and George Bush brought it up (statistically getting credit for Bill Clintons work since unemployment was down when Bush came into office).  Goes along with the Republican minimum wage argument that 5 percent of adults make minimum wage, when the fact is that if you work somewhere for a little while you get a raise and even a one cent raise technically means you no longer make exactly minimum wage.

If the facts dont fit your beliefs, then I guess making up stuff is your only other option.

Do you really think lower taxes are bad for the economy? Really? So, the less money the consumer gets to keep, the more money they have, right? Makes perfect sense. :/

The money is still in the economy and it comes back to the consumer (unless its spent somewhere like Iraq).  If someone makes $100,000, pays no taxes and $20,000 for healthcare, that is the same as someone making $100,000, paying $20,000 in taxes and getting free healthcare.

Healthcare is actually a public good that is more efficiently provided by the government, which is why America pays three times as much for healthcare than Brits for the same quality.  America healthcare spending GDP total is $5,000, United Kingom's is $1,800.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_hea_car_fun_tot_per_cap-care-funding-total-per-capita

Bigjon has obviously never been to the South if he thinks the Democrats are the biggest perpetrators in brainwashing people...watch the movie Jesus Camp and please tell me you can still believe that some of the churches in this country are not simply training camps for political and religious agendas.

Why shouldn't we be allowed to attack other people's religious ideas when they are used to misinform others? I respect everyone's right to believe in what they choose, but militant religious zealots are one of the biggest problems this country faces.

Why do you think terrorism is so hard to root out? Because it is based off a religious agenda that logic has a difficult time prevailing against

Well I hate religious zealots, but I was just being a dick to bigjon. I don't know or care about his particular beliefs because he wasn't pushing them on us.

I think terrorism is hard to root out because we're too busy creating terrorists while we pretend we're fighting them. It puts us in a tricky situation when some Americans can make money off of the war on terror, so they have no interest in ending it. Maybe we should have some insane system where our wars can only make foreigners rich, so we try to do them as quickly and cheaply as possible? Hahaha.

We should wage our wars where we run an entirely a drafted army, and the only people we allow to be drafted are 40-65 year old men.  I guarantee our country would become the world's largest pacifist if that were the case.

Ok the reality is Journalists are lazy fucks so when someone, like for eg. Fox News, talks shit about muslims / terrorists / obama, etc companies like CNN rinse and repeat this same lie over and over again.

It happened with Wrights hate america, flag pin, etc. This is all bullshit and we all know it.

The press is not left, if anything its confused, too busy clawing for ratings and ratings come from drama, conflict and stupid shit like patriotism and racial division.

Been gone a bit... my fiance forced me too spend time with her   ( it was not really that bad  )

I hate religous zealots also, and I am by no means right wing... I am actually quite moderate, and do not love McCain (I am really liking what I see in Sarah P) The only issue you could call me right wing on is abortion. I believe it is wrong to murder someone (even if it is a baby) because you were too irresponsible. I do support about in very few cases (mainly if the mother's own life is in danger).

As far as the kool=aid, propoganda word usage... I was not using koolaid much (if at all), and propaganda is what it is, there and many categories of it. Bandwagon, association, indorsement, etc. Both parties use it, and both sides use it. Reps. on the AM radio, and Dems on TV channels (excluding fox news).

Also many leftist Ideas are great in idea. But the problem lies in the fact that mankind is corrupt in nature. The power given to the gov (healthcare, schools) is wasted greatly. You cant just throw money at things and expect it to work. For example the healthcare industries, the fact that insurance EXIST is what make insurance a neccessity. I don't feel like explaining that, just figure it out.

As for the elitest comment. I do not feel that I am entitled anything more or any special benefits. I am willing to do just fine on my natural abilities. A major problem in America (which stems from progessive thinking) is that people think they are owed something. They think for some reason whether it be because their great-great-great grandpa was a slave or the U.S. gov took their ancestors land away the are owned something. Here is a little did-you-know- If you are Native American by Blood (I am not sure of the %... it is like 50% or 25%) you can go to college anywhere you want in America for FREE!!! The sad thing is that most people who are elegible do not take advantage.

Also I should not have attacked your beliefs, it is just many of them I have studied (not yours per say, but far left liberals), and they just won't work.