CGI-Quality said: rocketpig said: Obliterator1700 said: PS3 will not be a weak system in 2012...It constantly gets firmware updates. Maybe we might never see a ps4? Who knows... I never realized that more RAM could be installed via firmware. PS3, winning the battle through firmware! ... Wait. You realize that both the Wii and 360 also update their firmware on a continual basis, right?   I didn't know FW could add RAM either however- the 360 and Wii updates are no where near as frequent as the PS3 and beyond that the 360 updates software and PS3 firmware they are in fact different the PS3 hardware to an extent is being updated with firmware upgrades

Okay. Obviously someone didn't catch my sarcasm. You can't add RAM via firmware.

As for the PS3, I would certainly hope that Sony is releasing firmware updates more frequently than Microsoft, given how badly they half-assed the XMB and PSN at launch. Now they're both respectable (and competitive) so we'll see if Sony keeps it up or not. Not to mention that MS may be sliding the bar again with their new Dashboard update in November. In any case, Sony is working harder because they started so far behind. I won't congratulate them for creating a shitty product and patching it constantly until it's competitive with other offerings.

As for the Wii, like everything else Nintendo, they're off playing their own game in their own sandbox. You can't really compare anything they're doing to MS or Sony.

 

You can always make it better, see Merc 2. It doesn't look good, but it allows to blow nice amount of stuff up(= not all games have cgi-like graphs).

http://kotaku.com/5041249/blow-stuff-up-mercenaries-2-world-in-flames-pc-gameplay

(Then add holes on ground, real like sky, real like fluids...)

More functionality = less graphs.

CGI-Quality said: As a Sony loyalist - (not a fanboy) I personally would like to see Sony put out a far more powerful machine than the PS3 next gen but would it be worth it? I think as a launch 60GB PS3 owner that the PS3 was well worth all $641 (including tax) that I paid for it on Nov 17, 2006 but I also realize that if they were to take that same route next gen they would at least need some heftier launch titles to go along with that technology. PS3's biggest launch problem imo was the lack of software even though the competition suffered the same fate. Howerver Sony had that high price point of $599.99 that the public also had to contend with and thus the PS3 intially got a bad rep out of the box which also explains less 3rd party support as the competition hence - less sales. Things are now looking up for Sony big time but I think next gen they should take a less costly route with the PS4 just upgrading the PS3's tech minimally and getting some truly powerful exclusives out of the box with a console (though as I said I think the PS3 was well worth the $599.99 price tag) that doesnt exceed $449.99 at launch - Your thoughts?

 

if the ps3 had more ram (say 1gb)  i doubt we'd need a ps4 before 1080P was considered obsolete....

as it stands, i wish they had a ps3.5... ps3 but with more ram available for sale right now.

 

 

DaSimkin said: CGI-Quality said: As a Sony loyalist - (not a fanboy) I personally would like to see Sony put out a far more powerful machine than the PS3 next gen but would it be worth it? I think as a launch 60GB PS3 owner that the PS3 was well worth all $641 (including tax) that I paid for it on Nov 17, 2006 but I also realize that if they were to take that same route next gen they would at least need some heftier launch titles to go along with that technology. PS3's biggest launch problem imo was the lack of software even though the competition suffered the same fate. Howerver Sony had that high price point of $599.99 that the public also had to contend with and thus the PS3 intially got a bad rep out of the box which also explains less 3rd party support as the competition hence - less sales. Things are now looking up for Sony big time but I think next gen they should take a less costly route with the PS4 just upgrading the PS3's tech minimally and getting some truly powerful exclusives out of the box with a console (though as I said I think the PS3 was well worth the $599.99 price tag) that doesnt exceed $449.99 at launch - Your thoughts?   if the ps3 had more ram (say 1gb)  i doubt we'd need a ps4 before 1080P was considered obsolete.... as it stands, i wish they had a ps3.5... ps3 but with more ram available for sale right now.

If the PS3's best looking games were being rendered at 1080p @60fps I would agree with your point, but most of the best looking PS3 games are being rendered at below 720p and are struggling at (below) 30fps ... At the same time, even at 720p you can produce images which are far more realistic and impressive than what the PS3 produces (and this becomes even more dramatic when you jump up to 1080p) so you can't really argue that the graphics being produced are display limited.

Now, this doesn't mean that graphics (alone) are a major selling factor for consumers because I don't believe that they are ...

rocketpig said: Obliterator1700 said: PS3 will not be a weak system in 2012...It constantly gets firmware updates. Maybe we might never see a ps4? Who knows... I never realized that more RAM could be installed via firmware. PS3, winning the battle through firmware! ... Wait. You realize that both the Wii and 360 also update their firmware on a continual basis, right?

 

 Why are you trying to argue with me? Please, I repeat please don't compare Wii firmware updates with the Ps3. What you said is nothing more than fanboyish(Nintendo)

I never said the ps3 will win the battle with firmware either! Where did you get that from?

Nin

Obliterator1700 said: rocketpig said: Obliterator1700 said: PS3 will not be a weak system in 2012...It constantly gets firmware updates. Maybe we might never see a ps4? Who knows... I never realized that more RAM could be installed via firmware. PS3, winning the battle through firmware! ... Wait. You realize that both the Wii and 360 also update their firmware on a continual basis, right?    Why are you trying to argue with me? Please, I repeat please don't compare Wii firmware updates with the Ps3. What you said is nothing more than fanboyish(Nintendo) I never said the ps3 will win the battle with firmware either! Where did you get that from? Nin

 

I could be wrong, but I think rocketpig's point was that you're very limited in what you can do through a firmware update and firmware updates can not do a lot of what can be done through new hardware.

Even though we have passed the point of diminishing returns, there will be a fairly large jump in the quality of graphics that can be produced on (fairly) affordable hardware that is released between 2010 and 2012 ... Crysis today (in a lot of ways) relates to the next generation of hardware how Doom 3 related to the current generation of hardware; in other words, Crysis is impressive for when it was released but will be easily surpassed (in many ways) by what the below average developer can produce on next generation hardware. You can not really counter an improvement in graphics on this scale with a firmware update ...

Certainly, the PS3 can produce graphics at a level which is good enough for most games that will be produced for the next 10 years ... The problem is that consumers will still need to be interested in the PS3 after the next generation of consoles are released, and I have never seen a single firmware update which has produced any public interest in any product.

HappySqurriel said: Obliterator1700 said: rocketpig said: Obliterator1700 said: PS3 will not be a weak system in 2012...It constantly gets firmware updates. Maybe we might never see a ps4? Who knows... I never realized that more RAM could be installed via firmware. PS3, winning the battle through firmware! ... Wait. You realize that both the Wii and 360 also update their firmware on a continual basis, right?    Why are you trying to argue with me? Please, I repeat please don't compare Wii firmware updates with the Ps3. What you said is nothing more than fanboyish(Nintendo) I never said the ps3 will win the battle with firmware either! Where did you get that from? Nin   I could be wrong, but I think rocketpig's point was that you're very limited in what you can do through a firmware update and firmware updates can not do a lot of what can be done through new hardware. Even though we have passed the point of diminishing returns, there will be a fairly large jump in the quality of graphics that can be produced on (fairly) affordable hardware that is released between 2010 and 2012 ... Crysis today (in a lot of ways) relates to the next generation of hardware how Doom 3 related to the current generation of hardware; in other words, Crysis is impressive for when it was released but will be easily surpassed (in many ways) by what the below average developer can produce on next generation hardware. You can not really counter an improvement in graphics on this scale with a firmware update ... Certainly, the PS3 can produce graphics at a level which is good enough for most games that will be produced for the next 10 years ... The problem is that consumers will still need to be interested in the PS3 after the next generation of consoles are released, and I have never seen a single firmware update which has produced any public interest in any product.

 

 He tried to prove me wrong by saying," Wait. You realize that both the Wii and 360 also update their firmware on a continual basis, right?" This says it all. His trying to make a point by saying, if the PS3 is able to survive that long so will the 360 and Wii. When I never said anything involving the Wii or 360.

Here I thought people were saying , "Graphics don't matter!" What happened to that?

Blue-Ray wont be selling in 2016? Dvds sell today in 2008...

 

 

 

Obliterator1700 said:    He tried to prove me wrong by saying," Wait. You realize that both the Wii and 360 also update their firmware on a continual basis, right?" This says it all. His trying to make a point by saying, if the PS3 is able to survive that long so will the 360 and Wii. When I never said anything involving the Wii or 360. Here I thought people were saying , "Graphics don't matter!" What happened to that? Blue-Ray wont be selling in 2016? Dvds sell today in 2008...

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I tend to think that an improvement in graphics are no longer the primary reason why someone upgrades their console; and it is the overall improvement offered by a console which attracts consumers (which includes user-interface, ai, physics, graphics, etc.) ... The processing power difference is just the easiest to explain

Besides that, Blu-Ray is a storage format and has (very) little to do with how impressive the graphics of a game are ... consider that the XBox 360 produces graphics at the same level as the PS3 using DVD rather than Blu-Ray.

HappySqurriel said: Obliterator1700 said:    He tried to prove me wrong by saying," Wait. You realize that both the Wii and 360 also update their firmware on a continual basis, right?" This says it all. His trying to make a point by saying, if the PS3 is able to survive that long so will the 360 and Wii. When I never said anything involving the Wii or 360. Here I thought people were saying , "Graphics don't matter!" What happened to that? Blue-Ray wont be selling in 2016? Dvds sell today in 2008...         I can't speak for anyone else, but I tend to think that an improvement in graphics are no longer the primary reason why someone upgrades their console; and it is the overall improvement offered by a console which attracts consumers (which includes user-interface, ai, physics, graphics, etc.) ... The processing power difference is just the easiest to explain Besides that, Blu-Ray is a storage format and has (very) little to do with how impressive the graphics of a game are ... consider that the XBox 360 produces graphics at the same level as the PS3 using DVD rather than Blu-Ray.

You stated, "The problem is that consumers will still need to be interested in the PS3 after the next generation of consoles are released, and I have never seen a single firmware update which has produced any public interest in any product." I said, Blue-ray won't be selling in 2016? What I meant by this was that there are reasons for people to buy a PS3 even in that time.I'll assure you Blue-Ray isn't going anywhere in the next 8 years. I could be right or I could be wrong. Only time will tell.

 

 

Obliterator1700 said: HappySqurriel said: Obliterator1700 said:   He tried to prove me wrong by saying," Wait. You realize that both the Wii and 360 also update their firmware on a continual basis, right?" This says it all. His trying to make a point by saying, if the PS3 is able to survive that long so will the 360 and Wii. When I never said anything involving the Wii or 360. Here I thought people were saying , "Graphics don't matter!" What happened to that? Blue-Ray wont be selling in 2016? Dvds sell today in 2008...         I can't speak for anyone else, but I tend to think that an improvement in graphics are no longer the primary reason why someone upgrades their console; and it is the overall improvement offered by a console which attracts consumers (which includes user-interface, ai, physics, graphics, etc.) ... The processing power difference is just the easiest to explain Besides that, Blu-Ray is a storage format and has (very) little to do with how impressive the graphics of a game are ... consider that the XBox 360 produces graphics at the same level as the PS3 using DVD rather than Blu-Ray. You stated, "The problem is that consumers will still need to be interested in the PS3 after the next generation of consoles are released, and I have never seen a single firmware update which has produced any public interest in any product." I said, Blue-ray won't be selling in 2016? What I meant by this was that there are reasons for people to buy a PS3 even in that time.I'll assure you Blue-Ray isn't going anywhere in the next 8 years. I could be right or I could be wrong. Only time will tell.

Just because Blu-Ray continues to be a viable movie format for many years does not mean that it will help sell the PS3 after the next generation begins ... From (roughly) 2011 it is likely that the PS3 will be 2 to 4 times the price of a stand alone Blu-Ray player, and it is highly likely that all other gaming systems will include a Blu-Ray player because the cost to include it will be minimal.