Tony_Parker said: @seece : of course you don't make profit at the beginning of a console generation, seece, that's always like that in marketing. You invest in R&D, profits come later. Whether you become profitable one year or the next one isn't the most important thing in the world... That's why MS lost so much money with Xbox 1, they invested a lot. That's normal marketing... Or did you shout 'MS is failing' when they started to invest in Xbox 1 ? Success or failure will be known in 5 or even 10 years, not now. The fact that MS 360 became profitable in 2009 and Sony PS3 in 2010 is not what will matter the most ultimately. Do you think anybody can succeed in this market without investing ? You should check how many companies in growth sectors are profitable every year...

You're talking rubbish! for starters the 360 started to make a profit well before this year, where are you getting your awful figures from?

The Wii managed alright to make a profit at the start, and Microsofts good thinking assured them they'd be making a profit not long after. A Sony rep has gone on record to say the PS3 will start making a profit sometime in 2010.

 Stop lieing.

Just for the record.

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/01/24/the-xbox-turns-a-profit/

they started making a profit late 2007

Hmmmmmmm, sony fanboy talk in late 2006 (ps3's arrival this gen)

"once the ps3 arrives it will blow the 360 out of the water"

sony fanboy talk in 2009 (now that things clearly have not gone according to plan)

"we'll catch the 360 in 201x"

The x meaning any of the years between 2010 and 2019

I can only begin to imagine how painful it must be for ps3 fans not knowing when or if ever the ps3 will catch the 360.

Almost 3 years in to this gen for ps3 and it's STILL lagging behind the 360 by 8 million+ sales.

Oh dear.

EaglesEye379 said: @Tony Parker No one is saying PS3 is doomed. The whole point of this was to ask when the PS3 will overtake the total sales for 360 and back in 2008, ALOT of people (see the first post) was in consensus with Mid 2009 and were predicting a huge increase in PS3 sales by now. Its just a small comeback victory for the small minority of pro 360 fans on this site who had to endure loads of extravagant PS3 projections and propaganda since 2007. And its funny you are bringing PS2 into this because all its showing is how much more 'insignificant' the PS3 is comparatively, if thats how you wish to term it. Especially when both the 360 and PS3 have virtually all the 3rd party support that made the PS2 to what it was today.

Actually a lot of people (fanboys) are saying stupid things like PS3 is doomed or 360 is doomed by the way...

Talking about the predictions, you can't make very good ones considering you don't have the most important information, which is when Sony or MS will cut the price. So please excuse people who make bad predictions, it's really hard except for the CEOs.

For example, had MS not cut the price in last september, the gap would be much lower now...

I suspect Sony will cut the PS3 price in August, which combined with GT5 release, would explain their 13 million consoles sold target for the fiscal year. Hence my prediction of Q4 2010 for a comparable installed base, a gap of zero. Somebody said it would make 100k more PS3 sold every week worldwide, I say it's possible with price cut + gow3 + GT5...

About the PS2, well the 360 and the PS3 are both as insignificant compared to this console right now. (The difference is the whole PS2 library will soon be available on every PS3, not on 360.)

Tony_Parker said: 1.  No they're not failing at all. PS3 is nearly profitable right now, so they're definitely achieving their goal. PS2 is still very succesful. PSP sold 50 million... PSP Go is coming... They're not failing at all, except on fanboy websites. The recession hurts, but it's the same for microsoft. As soon as they can, Sony will change their strategy to 'gain market share' by cutting the price, and then you'll be amazed by the sales, while if you bothered looking before last september, you'd see it already happened and 2. PS3 was killing the 360 in sales (WORLDWIDE SALES) before the price cut. I think MS goal with the 360 early release was to kill the PS3. 3. While they succeeded in taking a good market share, they didn't succeed in this goal. PS3 sold what ? More than 20 million, and only 8 million less that MS before the first price cut... This particular goal is a failure. 4. I suspect that's why you see such things like Avatars, Natal, 1vs100... Everything casual. Mostly, MS will try to take some of the Wii crowd now. On the hardcore exclusive content side, they just can't compete with Sony 20+ studios, they just don't want to buy studios, that's not their strategy... The rest, failure / doom threads, that's in your head... PS3 and 360 are both successful. 5. Part of your mistakes probably come from the fact you live in the US, where the 360 is dominating. The rest of the world begs to differ though... Here in Europe, PS3 already has the same installed base as the 360, so any PS3 price cut would put the 360 far behind, leaving only the US as a dominating country for the 360.

1.  Thats because you have the same mentallity as the Sony execs.  Sony is not competing with anyone.  Therefore they can never be last and always be first

2.  Irrevlevant.....thats like saying we scored 2 runs in a baseball game, but as a whole, the game was stopped in the 5th inning because of the 10 run rule.  You have to look at the whole picture and not cherry pick.  OK sales picked up but it didn't last long.  Same thing will happen again.  MS has already said they are in a position to cut.

3. In terms of PS2 to PS3 they succeeded with flying colors and in all actuality Nintendo succeeded bigger than MS could ever dream of.  So yes, Nintendo and MS win in this category as well.

4.  Let's get something straight.  Sony and Microsoft are foaming out of the mouth to become what Nintendo already is.  Microsoft is doing a better job of going after that market, but make no mistake about it.  They are both lusting after Nintendo with eyes of jealousy.  There is no question about that.

5.  If I'm wrong in my assessment, then it's not my fault, it's VG chartz.  I see the same data every week Microsoft over Sony worldwide.  From a mathmatical standpoint your theory is not plausible.  it just isn't.  Not any time in the immediate future.  You guys have said the same thing for years about PS3 taking over Microsoft.  You've been wrong so many times it's not even funny.  You guys just recycle the same thing over and over.  Thats why it has become a laughing matter.  It's like the guy who kept crying Wolf.  After awhile we stop listening, because we don't believe anything you say.  

On a side note:  I would buy a PS3 over a 360. (lol)  Last Guardian tips it in Sony's favor for me

seece said: Just for the record. http://www.joystiq.com/2008/01/24/the-xbox-turns-a-profit/ they started making a profit late 2007

You're mixing many things... Are you talking of Xbox software, hardware ? The playstation division (PS2 / PSP / PS3) or the PS3 only ?

You don't even know what you're talking about.

That doesn't change my point, the first profitable year is not what matters. You can only know if a console is a success or a failure after many years... For example, PS2 is a success and Xbox 1 was a failure, we know that because it's more or less over... But 360 or PS3... That's much too early right now... Whether the PS2 lost money in 1995 or the Xbox 1 made money at the end, nobody cares now... That's not what matters. It's taking positions for the long run.

Anyway, I'm off. See you soon.

1. I explained that point. Immediate results are not what matter in console gaming. MS or Sony goal is on the long run, when one year of sales or profit doesn't matter that much.

2. Sony can cut the price, MS has already cut the price, any new price cut would have a much lesser effect now, since everybody who wanted the 360 already has it now...

3. I don't understand. Do you think PS3 is dead now ? If not, we agree. That's my point, MS didn't manage to kill the PS3 at all.

4. Cool we agree on that point.

5. Yeah, you can't imagine PS3 will win again like nobody could imagine 360 would beat PS3 again in sales worldwide when PS3 was winning week after week before last september. Take VG numbers, PS3 was winning every week at that time last year, so you would have said the same thing. And then things changed, there was a price cut. You would have been wrong.

I'm really off now. It's very late here in Europe.

Tony_Parker said: seece said: Just for the record. http://www.joystiq.com/2008/01/24/the-xbox-turns-a-profit/ they started making a profit late 2007 You're mixing many things... Are you talking of Xbox software, hardware ? The playstation division (PS2 / PSP / PS3) or the PS3 only ? You don't even know what you're talking about. That doesn't change my point, the first profitable year is not what matters. You can only know if a console is a success or a failure after many years... For example, PS2 is a success and Xbox 1 was a failure, we know that because it's more or less over... But 360 or PS3... That's much too early right now... Whether the PS2 lost money in 1995 or the Xbox 1 made money at the end, nobody cares now... That's not what matters. It's taking positions for the long run. Anyway, I'm off. See you soon.

I know exactly what I'm talking about, the 360 started making a profit in 07 and the PS3 is yet to make a profit.

and I do hope I never see your biased crap ever again.

Tony_Parker said: 1. I explained that point. Immediate results are not what matter in console gaming. MS or Sony goal is on the long run, when one year of sales or profit doesn't matter that much. 2. Sony can cut the price, MS has already cut the price, any new price cut would have a much lesser effect now, since everybody who wanted the 360 already has it now... 3. I don't understand. Do you think PS3 is dead now ? If not, we agree. That's my point, MS didn't manage to kill the PS3 at all.

I have come to the conclusion that you win.  There is no hope for you to look at reality.

Tony_Parker said: EaglesEye379 said: @Tony Parker No one is saying PS3 is doomed. The whole point of this was to ask when the PS3 will overtake the total sales for 360 and back in 2008, ALOT of people (see the first post) was in consensus with Mid 2009 and were predicting a huge increase in PS3 sales by now. Its just a small comeback victory for the small minority of pro 360 fans on this site who had to endure loads of extravagant PS3 projections and propaganda since 2007. And its funny you are bringing PS2 into this because all its showing is how much more 'insignificant' the PS3 is comparatively, if thats how you wish to term it. Especially when both the 360 and PS3 have virtually all the 3rd party support that made the PS2 to what it was today. Actually a lot of people (fanboys) are saying stupid things like PS3 is doomed or 360 is doomed by the way... Talking about the predictions, you can't make very good ones considering you don't have the most important information, which is when Sony or MS will cut the price. So please excuse people who make bad predictions, it's really hard except for the CEOs. For example, had MS not cut the price in last september, the gap would be much lower now... I suspect Sony will cut the PS3 price in August, which combined with GT5 release, would explain their 13 million consoles sold target for the fiscal year. Hence my prediction of Q4 2010 for a comparable installed base, a gap of zero. Somebody said it would make 100k more PS3 sold every week worldwide, I say it's possible with price cut + gow3 + GT5... About the PS2, well the 360 and the PS3 are both as insignificant compared to this console right now. (The difference is the whole PS2 library will soon be available on every PS3, not on 360.)

Again, its not about giving excuses to anyone making bad predictions. There are some really good credible posters on that list who are going to get their names red-listed. It just shows the big expectations put on the PS3 and the very positive sentiment last year - and maybe helps to paint the picture of the situation last year when even predicting that PS3 will catch up in 2010 got you mocked by a large number of posters because it was way too late.

So excuse us when we are slightly skeptical of the next huge wave of PS3 sales when God of War 3, GT5 hit. Sure, the PS3 will see an increase in sales and the PS3 is getting a slew of good games, but we have heard it all before, wait till MGS4, LBP, KZ2, Infamous come, wait next year, just you wait, as if its a huge blasphemy that theres a possibility that it wont catch the 360 in total sales.

I really think the console war is over anyway, it will be just be a ratio of 2:1:1 for Wii:360:PS3 at the end of it all, and if the PS3 does catch up, it will be very late in this console generation in my opinion. Heck even I predicted Mid 2010 in this thread which is looking extremely unlikely at this point.