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Forums - General Discussion - Do you believe in God? Why/Why not?

 

Do you believe in any god?

Yes 63 36.21%
 
No 111 63.79%
 
Total:174
SuperRetroTurbo said:
JWeinCom said:

I'm not sure what this has to do with god but if you want my opinion... sure.

So first off, I'm not sure you can say this is absolutely true.  I believe that you're telling the story to the best of your abilities with the intention of accuracy, but that doesn't mean its true.  Memory is a funny thing, particularly with dreams, when your brain is in an altered state.  It's possible that you had a dream about a baby, and then after hearing about choking, you remembered it differently.

But, let's assume for a second the dream was exactly as you recalled.  All I could say is something weird happened.  I don't know exactly the explanation, but I'd say that coincidence could not be ruled out.  I'm sure you've had a few thousand dreams in your life.  Most of them probably did not correlate with anything that happened in the real world, so they were forgotten.  Confirmation bias.

I'm guessing since you posted it in this topic, you're implying some kind of supernatural causation.  And, well maybe?  I guess?  I'm personally far more inclined to believe it was an error in memory, or a coincidence, because I know those things happen really often.  If you want to say it's supernatural, I'd really need something more repeatable or testable.

Once you've chosen to question the authenticity of my experience there is no need to further suggest its validity on my behalf.

 

So I won't. 

 

However since I'm left with something undoubtedly accurate to the best of my recollection, I can not simply accept what you assume to be possibility or mere coincidence.

 

It has very much to do with God since most omnipotent beings are closely associated with providing souls to their creations.

 

I didn't assume it was a coincidence, I said this is what I see as the most likely explanation.  Slight but important distinction.  

How did you determine that it was not a coincidence?  And even if you don't believe it was a coincidence, how did you get to god or a soul being involved in this?



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JWeinCom said:
SuperRetroTurbo said:

Once you've chosen to question the authenticity of my experience there is no need to further suggest its validity on my behalf.

 

So I won't. 

 

However since I'm left with something undoubtedly accurate to the best of my recollection, I can not simply accept what you assume to be possibility or mere coincidence.

 

It has very much to do with God since most omnipotent beings are closely associated with providing souls to their creations.

 

I didn't assume it was a coincidence, I said this is what I see as the most likely explanation.  Slight but important distinction.  

How did you determine that it was not a coincidence?  And even if you don't believe it was a coincidence, how did you get to god or a soul being involved in this?

I didnt determine it was not coincidence.

 

I implied that I could not accept what I interpreted as your suggestion to be true. Slight but important distinction.

 

It may have been a coincidence but because of the surrounding circumstance I simply choose to believe in something more profound.

 

I have also had a number of unexplainable experiences that lead me to believe in the supernatural.



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SuperRetroTurbo said:
JWeinCom said:

 

I didn't assume it was a coincidence, I said this is what I see as the most likely explanation.  Slight but important distinction.  

How did you determine that it was not a coincidence?  And even if you don't believe it was a coincidence, how did you get to god or a soul being involved in this?

I didnt determine it was not coincidence.

I implied that I could not accept what I interpreted as your suggestion to be true. Slight but important distinction.

It may have been a coincidence but because of the surrounding circumstance I simply choose to believe in something more profound.

I have also had a number of unexplainable experiences that lead me to believe in the supernatural.

Write it down and create a new religion because of it. That's what people usually do.



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vivster said:
SuperRetroTurbo said:

I didnt determine it was not coincidence.

I implied that I could not accept what I interpreted as your suggestion to be true. Slight but important distinction.

It may have been a coincidence but because of the surrounding circumstance I simply choose to believe in something more profound.

I have also had a number of unexplainable experiences that lead me to believe in the supernatural.

Write it down and create a new religion because of it. That's what people usually do.

Great way to make a living.



Insert Coin. Press START. You Died. Continue?

SuperRetroTurbo said:
vivster said:

Write it down and create a new religion because of it. That's what people usually do.

Great way to make a living.

Sure is. Not only profitable but also makes the life so much easier to not having to think about stuff that's not instantly explainable and just using the same shorthand for everything.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

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vivster said:
SuperRetroTurbo said:

Great way to make a living.

Sure is. Not only profitable but also makes the life so much easier to not having to think about stuff that's not instantly explainable and just using the same shorthand for everything.

Fundamentally, it's a business. I don't believe it's any different than paying $2.00 for a 2 litre of Pepsi worth pennies.

Morally speaking? That's debatable.



Insert Coin. Press START. You Died. Continue?

JWeinCom said:
WolfpackN64 said:

Again, no contradiction. But I think that's a language mistake. When I sais "everything is caused", I mean it in the sense of cause and effect, as in moved (and potentially brought in to being).

How did you establish the uncaused thing is a "being".  As opposed to say quantum particles which do arise with seemingly no cause.  

How did you rule out the possibility of multiple uncaused things?  Granted you only need one to start off a chain, but if one could exist, it stands to reason that more than one can exist.  Things are either possible or impossible.  Not possible but just once.  

How did you come to the conclusion that this necessary being is God?  You used a capital G so I'm assuming you mean Yahweh Jehovah or whatever you call the Judeo-Christian god.  And this god has tons of characteristics that are entirely unnecessary, and perhaps unlikely, for a first cause.  So how did you get there?

How does a being exist without being caused?  Saying it's necessary doesn't solve this problem.  There has to be some kind of explanation for its existence for it to be justified.  If you are saying its possible, then you have to establish some kind of mechanism or process, and why it could only apply to one thing at one time?

So, yeah.  The argument is completely flawed head to toe.

For one, Quantum particles or virtual particles do not "appear" out of nowhere. They're temporary states.

The assumption that this being is God is jist that, a reasoned assumption. No other necessary being really fits the bill so jumping inductively to this being God is a jump we logically can make.

The explanation for this being being uncaused is that it is a necessary being. The mechanism of which is that due to it's very nature, God would be uncaused.

And lastly, it's only flawed in the sense that you bring non-metaphysical arguments in a metaphysical argument to show how unlikely it would be. That doesn't really work either. Even then, the argument isn't fatally flawed.



WolfpackN64 said:
JWeinCom said:

How did you establish the uncaused thing is a "being".  As opposed to say quantum particles which do arise with seemingly no cause.  

How did you rule out the possibility of multiple uncaused things?  Granted you only need one to start off a chain, but if one could exist, it stands to reason that more than one can exist.  Things are either possible or impossible.  Not possible but just once.  

How did you come to the conclusion that this necessary being is God?  You used a capital G so I'm assuming you mean Yahweh Jehovah or whatever you call the Judeo-Christian god.  And this god has tons of characteristics that are entirely unnecessary, and perhaps unlikely, for a first cause.  So how did you get there?

How does a being exist without being caused?  Saying it's necessary doesn't solve this problem.  There has to be some kind of explanation for its existence for it to be justified.  If you are saying its possible, then you have to establish some kind of mechanism or process, and why it could only apply to one thing at one time?

So, yeah.  The argument is completely flawed head to toe.

For one, Quantum particles or virtual particles do not "appear" out of nowhere. They're temporary states.

The assumption that this being is God is jist that, a reasoned assumption. No other necessary being really fits the bill so jumping inductively to this being God is a jump we logically can make.

The explanation for this being being uncaused is that it is a necessary being. The mechanism of which is that due to it's very nature, God would be uncaused.

And lastly, it's only flawed in the sense that you bring non-metaphysical arguments in a metaphysical argument to show how unlikely it would be. That doesn't really work either. Even then, the argument isn't fatally flawed.

If god is the logical conclusion from an argument, what are the arguments against a being that would not be considered a theistic god?



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

JWeinCom said:
Eagle367 said:

Can you prove to me that an nth dimension doesn't exist or does exist? Can you find evidence of another universe? No right. Hell you can't even see the entire universe only the parts whose light reaches us. So if that's so hard to observe and prove, what makes you think that you can do the same with the creator? Unless He wants it?

If there is a god who interacts with the universe, but does so in a way specifically designed to avoid detection... Then I guess I couldn't detect it.

But, what reason could I possibly have to believe this god exists?  How could you tell the difference between an undetectable god, and a non-existent god?  

I also don't believe in an nth dimension or another universe, for largely the same reasons.  Why and how would/could I believe in something that cannot be detected?

Neutrinos couldn't be detected for a long while. Same with electrons and protons and atoms themselves. The point being we are primitive in many ways still and have a long ways to go to discover all that is within our grasp let alone every mystery there is in the universe and you can believe what you want and I can believe what I want but we both won't know until we die or won't ever know since death will be the end if you're right. In my belief this life is a test of faith .Wouldn't be much of a test if we could find evidence of God so easily when we can't even find everything in our oceans in our little world. I am strong in my belief but I'm not arrogant in it. That's the one thing I avoid. I use my little brain to make deductions and judgements as to how everything should be, hoping I am right. A Godless existence doesn't make any sense to me



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vivster said:
WolfpackN64 said:

For one, Quantum particles or virtual particles do not "appear" out of nowhere. They're temporary states.

The assumption that this being is God is jist that, a reasoned assumption. No other necessary being really fits the bill so jumping inductively to this being God is a jump we logically can make.

The explanation for this being being uncaused is that it is a necessary being. The mechanism of which is that due to it's very nature, God would be uncaused.

And lastly, it's only flawed in the sense that you bring non-metaphysical arguments in a metaphysical argument to show how unlikely it would be. That doesn't really work either. Even then, the argument isn't fatally flawed.

If god is the logical conclusion from an argument, what are the arguments against a being that would not be considered a theistic god?

Good question. As for the cosmological argument, it only builds up to God, not against anything else that could be considered a necessary being or event. Problem is most discussion is done back and forth on the same arguments, but eventually someone will circumvent the discussion and look at other possabilities. Sorry if this awnser is somewhat dissapointing.