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Panic Button about Switch’s future, next PlayStation/Xbox effect

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DélioPT said:
Miyamotoo said:

Agree, not just that when PS5/XB2 arives they will have $400+ price points while Switch will probably have around $200 price point with multiply revisions present on market, but Switch main point and biggest advantage over competition will still be present and that's of course full handheld play.

First, the hybrid concept is selling but like any other system seller aspect of a console, it loses selling power over time. Even if just because there are two new consoles.

Second, as i wrote above, consumers didn't care that PS4 was 400$, that XB1 was more expensive (had to do more with it being bundled with something that gamers didn't care and had no alternative, plus other things).
If PS5 and XB4 is everything gamers wanted from next gen, you can bet a 200 Switch won't have the effect you think it will, specially when Switch isn't stealing costumers from MS and Sony.

Hybrid concept cant be loosed buy time, hybrid concept will be one of main reasons for buying Switch even after PS5/XB2 arives on market, offcourse with stronger Switch lineup over years and lower price point Switch will become more desirable product later for plenty of consumers and can easily sell very well despite PS5/XB2 on market. For instance 3DS was selling very well despite PS4/XB1 and even Wii U arived on market.

Point is that more people will buy Switch when price point is much more afordible, you keep missing fact that Switch can keep selling good despite PS5/XB2, same like PS4 was keep selling great despite Switch arived on market thats also selling good, Nintendo dont need to steal consumers from MS and Sony in order to selling good, but offcourse that buy time more PS4/XB1 users will buy Switch also.



Lᴏsᴛ ʙᴇᴛ ʙᴜʏ @ǫᴜɪᴄᴋʀɪᴄᴋ, ᴄʜᴀɴɢᴇᴅ ᴀᴠᴀᴛᴀʀ ꜰᴏʀ ᴏɴᴇ ᴍᴏɴᴛʜ.

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Miyamotoo said:
DélioPT said:

First, the hybrid concept is selling but like any other system seller aspect of a console, it loses selling power over time. Even if just because there are two new consoles.

Second, as i wrote above, consumers didn't care that PS4 was 400$, that XB1 was more expensive (had to do more with it being bundled with something that gamers didn't care and had no alternative, plus other things).
If PS5 and XB4 is everything gamers wanted from next gen, you can bet a 200 Switch won't have the effect you think it will, specially when Switch isn't stealing costumers from MS and Sony.

Hybrid concept cant be loosed buy time, hybrid concept will be one of main reasons for buying Switch even after PS5/XB2 arives on market, offcourse with stronger Switch lineup over years and lower price point Switch will become more desirable product later for plenty of consumers and can easily sell very well despite PS5/XB2 on market. For instance 3DS was selling very well despite PS4/XB1 and even Wii U arived on market.

Point is that more people will buy Switch when price point is much more afordible, you keep missing fact that Switch can keep selling good despite PS5/XB2, same like PS4 was keep selling great despite Switch arived on market thats also selling good, Nintendo dont need to steal consumers from MS and Sony in order to selling good, but offcourse that buy time more PS4/XB1 users will buy Switch also.

So, other things lose value over time, but not Switch?
Everything loses value over time. That's why new generations are introduced.

Switch isn't capable of stealing customers from Sony and MS, now when it came out at full force, and you think that lowering the price and improving the catalogue will do the trick? If this was another console i would probably agree with you. But this is not your ordinary situation. You can't aproach it as if it was the same old story repeating itself.

3DS is a handheld. 
And to get Nintendo games it really was the only wise choice.

Again, you can't see Switch as another console. This generation is like no other.
Gamers have already shown that if they see a reason to pay 400+$, they will. Simple as that.
And if gamers embrace next gen like they did with the current one, Switch at 149-199 won't matter as much as you think. Specially when sales are making it clear that Switch isn't the priority to gamers.

"same like PS4 was keep selling great despite Switch arived on market thats also selling good, Nintendo dont need to steal consumers from MS and Sony in order to selling good, but offcourse that buy time more PS4/XB1 users will buy Switch also."

Of course PS4 (XB1, too) kept selling great. Switch wasn't stealing costumers away from it.
Switch doesn't need to steal costumers from PS4 and XB1? So, doing that or not, is completely irrelevant to you?
You do realise that, by the looks of it, Switch has a limited (because it's made up of PS4 and XB1 userbase) market potential, don't you? And after Switch eats up a good chunk of that market, what happens next? 

Stealing costumers would mean that, in the years to come, Switch would have a better fighting chance against XB4 and PS5. Why? Because that would mean that people see Switch as a primary console and not a secondary console.

If Switch can only get that type of costumers (Switch = secondary console), when it's competition arrives, that market will dry up faster than it should. Clearly cutting into Switch's potential market and lifespan.
That's why it's important for Switch to find it's own userbase. Not to mention the benefits for next gen HW, aswell.

And if that happens, no 149-199 price point will help it.



DélioPT said:
Miyamotoo said:

Hybrid concept cant be loosed buy time, hybrid concept will be one of main reasons for buying Switch even after PS5/XB2 arives on market, offcourse with stronger Switch lineup over years and lower price point Switch will become more desirable product later for plenty of consumers and can easily sell very well despite PS5/XB2 on market. For instance 3DS was selling very well despite PS4/XB1 and even Wii U arived on market.

Point is that more people will buy Switch when price point is much more afordible, you keep missing fact that Switch can keep selling good despite PS5/XB2, same like PS4 was keep selling great despite Switch arived on market thats also selling good, Nintendo dont need to steal consumers from MS and Sony in order to selling good, but offcourse that buy time more PS4/XB1 users will buy Switch also.

So, other things lose value over time, but not Switch?
Everything loses value over time. That's why new generations are introduced.

Switch isn't capable of stealing customers from Sony and MS, now when it came out at full force, and you think that lowering the price and improving the catalogue will do the trick? If this was another console i would probably agree with you. But this is not your ordinary situation. You can't aproach it as if it was the same old story repeating itself.

3DS is a handheld. 
And to get Nintendo games it really was the only wise choice.

Again, you can't see Switch as another console. This generation is like no other.
Gamers have already shown that if they see a reason to pay 400+$, they will. Simple as that.
And if gamers embrace next gen like they did with the current one, Switch at 149-199 won't matter as much as you think. Specially when sales are making it clear that Switch isn't the priority to gamers.

"same like PS4 was keep selling great despite Switch arived on market thats also selling good, Nintendo dont need to steal consumers from MS and Sony in order to selling good, but offcourse that buy time more PS4/XB1 users will buy Switch also."

Of course PS4 (XB1, too) kept selling great. Switch wasn't stealing costumers away from it.
Switch doesn't need to steal costumers from PS4 and XB1? So, doing that or not, is completely irrelevant to you?
You do realise that, by the looks of it, Switch has a limited (because it's made up of PS4 and XB1 userbase) market potential, don't you? And after Switch eats up a good chunk of that market, what happens next? 

Stealing costumers would mean that, in the years to come, Switch would have a better fighting chance against XB4 and PS5. Why? Because that would mean that people see Switch as a primary console and not a secondary console.

If Switch can only get that type of costumers (Switch = secondary console), when it's competition arrives, that market will dry up faster than it should. Clearly cutting into Switch's potential market and lifespan.
That's why it's important for Switch to find it's own userbase. Not to mention the benefits for next gen HW, aswell.

And if that happens, no 149-199 price point will help it.

You again missing point, when PS5/XB2 arives on market Switch will still be only hybrid on market, if PS5/XB2 are hybrids that would be totaly difrent story.

You doing same thing again, again, Nintendo dont need to steal consumers from MS and Sony in order to selling good, but offcourse that buy time more PS4/XB1 users will buy Switch. Of Course that most people are buying secondary console when there is much affordable price point and stronger lineup, not when console is launched.

But Switch is also handheld in same time, if someone buying it for handheld nature of Switch nothing relly changes, not to mentione that later Switch revision will probably have only handheld model.

There are houses that buy multiply consoles, and in Switch case you will see multiply Switch units per hosehold (Nintendo said they aiming that Switch become unit per person devaice not per house), of course that is hard achievable with current price point but with more affordable price point and more revisions you will see more of that. Offcourse it will, you dont realise that some people would love Switch just for handheld play buy they reffusing to pay $300, if price point is not important PS4/XB1 wouldnt sell like crazy last November and where bouth had they bests months when they had price cut to $200. If Switch has limited market potential it wouldn't sell 18m in best year for PS4, more people will be on board how more big/strong titles are out and how price point goes down.

Offcourse that Switch want be secondary console for every consumer, for handheld players it will be, for Nintendo fans also will also be, for some casuals/family players also could be, but it can be secondary console for plenty of PS4/XB1/PC users.



Lᴏsᴛ ʙᴇᴛ ʙᴜʏ @ǫᴜɪᴄᴋʀɪᴄᴋ, ᴄʜᴀɴɢᴇᴅ ᴀᴠᴀᴛᴀʀ ꜰᴏʀ ᴏɴᴇ ᴍᴏɴᴛʜ.

Miyamotoo said:
DélioPT said:

So, other things lose value over time, but not Switch?
Everything loses value over time. That's why new generations are introduced.

Switch isn't capable of stealing customers from Sony and MS, now when it came out at full force, and you think that lowering the price and improving the catalogue will do the trick? If this was another console i would probably agree with you. But this is not your ordinary situation. You can't aproach it as if it was the same old story repeating itself.

3DS is a handheld. 
And to get Nintendo games it really was the only wise choice.

Again, you can't see Switch as another console. This generation is like no other.
Gamers have already shown that if they see a reason to pay 400+$, they will. Simple as that.
And if gamers embrace next gen like they did with the current one, Switch at 149-199 won't matter as much as you think. Specially when sales are making it clear that Switch isn't the priority to gamers.

"same like PS4 was keep selling great despite Switch arived on market thats also selling good, Nintendo dont need to steal consumers from MS and Sony in order to selling good, but offcourse that buy time more PS4/XB1 users will buy Switch also."

Of course PS4 (XB1, too) kept selling great. Switch wasn't stealing costumers away from it.
Switch doesn't need to steal costumers from PS4 and XB1? So, doing that or not, is completely irrelevant to you?
You do realise that, by the looks of it, Switch has a limited (because it's made up of PS4 and XB1 userbase) market potential, don't you? And after Switch eats up a good chunk of that market, what happens next? 

Stealing costumers would mean that, in the years to come, Switch would have a better fighting chance against XB4 and PS5. Why? Because that would mean that people see Switch as a primary console and not a secondary console.

If Switch can only get that type of costumers (Switch = secondary console), when it's competition arrives, that market will dry up faster than it should. Clearly cutting into Switch's potential market and lifespan.
That's why it's important for Switch to find it's own userbase. Not to mention the benefits for next gen HW, aswell.

And if that happens, no 149-199 price point will help it.

You again missing point, when PS5/XB2 arives on market Switch will still be only hybrid on market, if PS5/XB2 are hybrids that would be totaly difrent story.

You doing same thing again, again, Nintendo dont need to steal consumers from MS and Sony in order to selling good, but offcourse that buy time more PS4/XB1 users will buy Switch. Of Course that most people are buying secondary console when there is much affordable price point and stronger lineup, not when console is launched.

But Switch is also handheld in same time, if someone buying it for handheld nature of Switch nothing relly changes, not to mentione that later Switch revision will probably have only handheld model.

There are houses that buy multiply consoles, and in Switch case you will see multiply Switch units per hosehold (Nintendo said they aiming that Switch become unit per person devaice not per house), of course that is hard achievable with current price point but with more affordable price point and more revisions you will see more of that. Offcourse it will, you dont realise that some people would love Switch just for handheld play buy they reffusing to pay $300, if price point is not important PS4/XB1 wouldnt sell like crazy last November and where bouth had they bests months when they had price cut to $200. If Switch has limited market potential it wouldn't sell 18m in best year for PS4, more people will be on board how more big/strong titles are out and how price point goes down.

Offcourse that Switch want be secondary console for every consumer, for handheld players it will be, for Nintendo fans also will also be, for some casuals/family players also could be, but it can be secondary console for plenty of PS4/XB1/PC users.

Why do you think that being a hybrid will change things? Nintendo is selling it as a home console and people are buying it as such.

Again, products lose value over time. All the talk you see about the hybrid aspect of it, will eventually fade away. That's what happens with products: people move on or their potential market is drained out - sometimes both.

How can you not see how relevant it is for Switch to steal costumers from the competition?
You can't assume that because Switch is selling well now, things will remain the same in the future. That reasoning is flawed and could be best applied to when it can fight over consumers with the competition - which is not happening.
"Stealing costumers would mean that, in the years to come, Switch would have a better fighting chance against XB4 and PS5. Why? Because that would mean that people see Switch as a primary console and not a secondary console."

"not to mention that later Switch revision will probably have only handheld model."
So, your recipe for keep Switch selling is to kill it?
People don't want a handheld, they are not perceiving it as a handheld and the day Nintendo tries to sell it as such, the console will be seen as an inferior product.

" if price point is not important PS4/XB1 wouldnt sell like crazy last November and where bouth had they bests months when they had price cut to $200."
You really want to use that view of a price cut that just happened to take place in a very important month? A time where people start buying their thanksgiving and holiday gifts…
Not to mention that the price cuts of that significance are perfect for impulse purchases (now add to that the holiday and thanksgiving).

I never said that price points are irrelevant. I said that price points aren't as important as they were. And this generation proves exactly that.

"If Switch has limited market potential it wouldn't sell 18m in best year for PS4, more people will be on board how more big/strong titles are out and how price point goes down"
Switch sells 18M in PS4's best year, without making XB1 sales go down, and that to you is utterly irrelevant? Please, explain me why all the hype and sales of that magnitude didn't affect two direct competitors. Not one, but two direct competitors, whereas one still had the best selling year.

That shows that despite the Switch hype, consumers don't see it as the go to console. And that's bad!
When a product causes this type of reaction in a market (the hype and sales) but the end result is "everything stays the same", that means that the effect is only conjectural and not structural. Which means that the benefits of Switch will most likely be on the short term and not on the medium and long term.

And this is where Switch can suffer: if Nintendo can't change this, when next gen starts, people will flock to it and Switch will take a serious hit, either by decreasing sales or not being able to endure as much as it could.
Why? Simple, Switch is not a priority for people coming into the market and second, it's living off of old PS4 and XB1 users.



DélioPT said:
Miyamotoo said:

You again missing point, when PS5/XB2 arives on market Switch will still be only hybrid on market, if PS5/XB2 are hybrids that would be totaly difrent story.

You doing same thing again, again, Nintendo dont need to steal consumers from MS and Sony in order to selling good, but offcourse that buy time more PS4/XB1 users will buy Switch. Of Course that most people are buying secondary console when there is much affordable price point and stronger lineup, not when console is launched.

But Switch is also handheld in same time, if someone buying it for handheld nature of Switch nothing relly changes, not to mentione that later Switch revision will probably have only handheld model.

There are houses that buy multiply consoles, and in Switch case you will see multiply Switch units per hosehold (Nintendo said they aiming that Switch become unit per person devaice not per house), of course that is hard achievable with current price point but with more affordable price point and more revisions you will see more of that. Offcourse it will, you dont realise that some people would love Switch just for handheld play buy they reffusing to pay $300, if price point is not important PS4/XB1 wouldnt sell like crazy last November and where bouth had they bests months when they had price cut to $200. If Switch has limited market potential it wouldn't sell 18m in best year for PS4, more people will be on board how more big/strong titles are out and how price point goes down.

Offcourse that Switch want be secondary console for every consumer, for handheld players it will be, for Nintendo fans also will also be, for some casuals/family players also could be, but it can be secondary console for plenty of PS4/XB1/PC users.

Why do you think that being a hybrid will change things? Nintendo is selling it as a home console and people are buying it as such.

Again, products lose value over time. All the talk you see about the hybrid aspect of it, will eventually fade away. That's what happens with products: people move on or their potential market is drained out - sometimes both.

How can you not see how relevant it is for Switch to steal costumers from the competition?
You can't assume that because Switch is selling well now, things will remain the same in the future. That reasoning is flawed and could be best applied to when it can fight over consumers with the competition - which is not happening.
"Stealing costumers would mean that, in the years to come, Switch would have a better fighting chance against XB4 and PS5. Why? Because that would mean that people see Switch as a primary console and not a secondary console."

"not to mention that later Switch revision will probably have only handheld model."
So, your recipe for keep Switch selling is to kill it?
People don't want a handheld, they are not perceiving it as a handheld and the day Nintendo tries to sell it as such, the console will be seen as an inferior product.

" if price point is not important PS4/XB1 wouldnt sell like crazy last November and where bouth had they bests months when they had price cut to $200."
You really want to use that view of a price cut that just happened to take place in a very important month? A time where people start buying their thanksgiving and holiday gifts…
Not to mention that the price cuts of that significance are perfect for impulse purchases (now add to that the holiday and thanksgiving).

I never said that price points are irrelevant. I said that price points aren't as important as they were. And this generation proves exactly that.

"If Switch has limited market potential it wouldn't sell 18m in best year for PS4, more people will be on board how more big/strong titles are out and how price point goes down"
Switch sells 18M in PS4's best year, without making XB1 sales go down, and that to you is utterly irrelevant? Please, explain me why all the hype and sales of that magnitude didn't affect two direct competitors. Not one, but two direct competitors, whereas one still had the best selling year.

That shows that despite the Switch hype, consumers don't see it as the go to console. And that's bad!
When a product causes this type of reaction in a market (the hype and sales) but the end result is "everything stays the same", that means that the effect is only conjectural and not structural. Which means that the benefits of Switch will most likely be on the short term and not on the medium and long term.

And this is where Switch can suffer: if Nintendo can't change this, when next gen starts, people will flock to it and Switch will take a serious hit, either by decreasing sales or not being able to endure as much as it could.
Why? Simple, Switch is not a priority for people coming into the market and second, it's living off of old PS4 and XB1 users.

Sry, but I really can't continue arguing with you because you making points that dont make sense at all and you fail to see clear facts and obvious things, and I dont see point replying to you any more.

I will just gave you one example of that, so I will just answer on your first point: "Why do you think that being a hybrid will change things? Nintendo is selling it as a home console and people are buying it as such".

Because everyone knows that one of main reasons why Switch is selling so good is because is a hybrid nature of Switch, some people are buying it because of its handheld side on first place, you can bet that Switch wouldn't had so much good sales if its just standard home console, so no Switch is not selling only like home console, and if PS5/XB2 would also be hybrids Switch would lose one of its biggest advantages compared to all other consoles on market. And yet you fail to see that, so I relly dont see any point keep arguing with you because it's pointless.



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Miyamotoo said:
DélioPT said: 

Sry, but I really can't continue arguing with you because you making points that dont make sense at all and you fail to see clear facts and obvious things, and I dont see point replying to you any more.

I will just gave you one example of that, so I will just answer on your first point: "Why do you think that being a hybrid will change things? Nintendo is selling it as a home console and people are buying it as such".

Because everyone knows that one of main reasons why Switch is selling so good is because is a hybrid nature of Switch, some people are buying it because of its handheld side on first place, you can bet that Switch wouldn't had so much good sales if its just standard home console, so no Switch is not selling only like home console, and if PS5/XB2 would also be hybrids Switch would lose one of its biggest advantages compared to all other consoles on market. And yet you fail to see that, so I relly dont see any point keep arguing with you because it's pointless.

Of course that i don't make sense. You don't pay attention to what i write and you take conclusions based on things i never said.

"some people are buying it because of its handheld side on first place, you can bet that Switch wouldn't had so much good sales if its just standard home console,"
You can't say some people buy X console and then assume, that if those some didn't buy, the effect would be big.
It's either some buy or a lot buy. And it's some buy it just for the handheld aspect.

But even then it doesn't mean they don't perceive it as a regular handheld.
Everything from Nintendo's side has been to position Switch as a home console that you can take on the go. And people DO perceive it as such: that's why people keep comparing it to PS4 and XB1.

Do people really perceive it as a handheld and use it as such? Yes. But those are the minority.

I do not fail to see the hybrid aspect as a selling factor - specially when i have said this to you on several occasions.
What you fail to see is that it's hybrid nature won't be a selling factor for ever and that that same factor hasn't made structural changes to the market. 
Also, that difference between structural and conjectural changes are completely dismissed by you, let alone the it's consequences.

I'll say this one more time: whatever is selling Switch today hasn't been strong enough to change the course of it's competitors. And that is really important to not overlook.
Because when the time comes, people won't be choosing between 3 prioritary consoles, they'll will be choosing between 2 prioritary consoles and a secondary console.
Can you understand how significant that is?

If Switch can't be a priority now, what makes you believe that it can be one when Sony and MS release new consoles? And this you haven't answered.