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Forums - General Discussion - Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior

Zoombael said:
numberwang said:

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/in-this-moment-i-am-euphoric

At the beginning Tyson seemed relatively down to earth to me. Now he displays the same bad characte ristcs as any other pious prick.

Read the link! It's a meme.



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CrazyGamer2017 said:
Baldeagle8 said:

I would recommend reading "The Hiding Place", the story of Corrie Ten Boom about her experiences of how God can be used for good even during the tragic times of world war 2. Great book regardless. 

 

You can look at life through 2 different lens...

We are here by random chance and those who face tragic events just got "unlucky" and there is no redemption or purpose for their life. 

Or, despite the brokenness of this world, there is still beauty that comes out of these tragic events with redemption for those who suffered unfairly.   

 

I can say that most believers do struggle with the notion of the "why do these bad things happen", but it is through that friction and struggle that most become stronger people and closer to God. 

I'm sorry but this makes no sense to me.  So what you are saying is that asking these very relevant questions like "Why do these bad things happen" get people closer to the very being that creates these bad things or at the very least allows the bad things to happen to people? What is this? Like some perverted version of the Stockholm Syndrome?

It's as if a victim of nazism said, only through asking the question: Why did Hitler do or allowed all these bad things to happen to us victims, only through asking such questions can we get stronger and closer to... Hitler!

So not only do religious people get no answer to that very fundamental question but asking it makes all the bad stuff magically go away and makes them get closer to the God that is at the origin of all their suffering, that's so illogical and at the same time such a very religious thing to do.

As for how to look at life, the second option that you state, looks pretty and ideal but as a freethinker and a truth seeker I cannot ignore the hardcore logic of the first option as demonstrated by all the evidence around us.

Yes, reading that again I can see how it wouldn't make much sense. I didn't explain the sense of "questioning God" very well. The example of Hitler isn't very good because he is just but a man. The Bible actually warns us not to follow people blindly, but to line up their words and actions with the Bible. Obviously, Hitler had some beliefs that strongly contradicted what the Bible taught about morality. Corrie Ten Boom actually experiences this in the book.

 

To further compound on the "struggle" that we humans have with why do bad things happen is that fact that some things we just don't know. It is the unknown that brings us closer and more reliant on God.  You can add the counter point believing this way just to feel better about bad things happening seems convenient, which I can understand. But as a believer, we know most things require a certain amount of faith. The best argument for this is people who have had horrible genetic or location luck, made the decision to honor God and use their experience and condition to actually bring glory to God. It would appear that most of these people, who had every right to just be hateful and resentful, embrace their situation and live life to the fullest extent possible. 

Nick Vujicic is a great example of this. He was born without arms or legs, but has embraced his condition and used it to help other people. I understand you don't need to be a believer in God to be happy despite facing horrible challenges, but there is something about believing your story has a purpose beyond just keeping our species alive. 



dark_gh0st_b0y said:
Jesus is our Lord and Savior

non-believers trust their weak brain too much, human intelligence is like that of a worm compared to god

god created science in the first place... humans are just doing their best to discover it

This is a facetious post, right? Like, there's no way you actually believe this, is there? 

Please, for the love of the land and the future of our society, please don't actually believe something so foolish, willfully ignorant, and misguided. 

If you do, please don't breed. 



Baldeagle8 said:

...there is something about believing your story has a purpose beyond just keeping our species alive. 

Speaking as an atheist (a fairly hardcore one), when I hear this sort of thing, I feel some sympathy. I believe that "purpose" can be individual, and I don't believe that a belief in God is required to have purpose in one's life, but I sympathize at least with the desire for a sense of purpose.

If that were all that theism represented, frankly, I don't think that theists and atheists would have much contention between them. But theism, and whatever sense of purpose it provides, is usually associated with some type of dogma... and very often with political ends, as well. If theists were people who felt purposeful, but did not pronounce homosexuality immoral by divine authority, for instance, or legislate against the same, then perhaps atheists would still disagree on some level with the underlying belief in God, but I doubt that anyone would care much about the resulting difference.

Beyond that, I wonder, if the purpose that a belief in God provides is beyond "just keeping our species alive," then what precisely is that divinely ordained purpose? Singing hosannas?



donathos said:
Baldeagle8 said:

...there is something about believing your story has a purpose beyond just keeping our species alive. 

 

Beyond that, I wonder, if the purpose that a belief in God provides is beyond "just keeping our species alive," then what precisely is that divinely ordained purpose? Singing hosannas?

Cliche answer, to love God and other people.

Other than that, I guess we will or won't see... 



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Alara317 said:
dark_gh0st_b0y said:
Jesus is our Lord and Savior

non-believers trust their weak brain too much, human intelligence is like that of a worm compared to god

god created science in the first place... humans are just doing their best to discover it

This is a facetious post, right? Like, there's no way you actually believe this, is there? 

Please, for the love of the land and the future of our society, please don't actually believe something so foolish, willfully ignorant, and misguided. 

If you do, please don't breed. 

of course I believe it, unless you can prove otherwise?

the most ironic thing is that atheists in the US/EU, apply the most basic teachings of Jesus in their everyday life, regardless

before Christianity spread in Europe in the Middle Ages, that wasn't the case, looking at something that happened 2000 yeas ago with today's mind, doesn't make non-believers look smart either

feel free to call me whatever you want, I've heard it all before ;)



don't mind my username, that was more than 10 years ago, I'm a different person now, amazing how people change ^_^

dark_gh0st_b0y said:
Alara317 said:

This is a facetious post, right? Like, there's no way you actually believe this, is there? 

Please, for the love of the land and the future of our society, please don't actually believe something so foolish, willfully ignorant, and misguided. 

If you do, please don't breed. 

of course I believe it, unless you can prove otherwise?

the most ironic thing is that atheists in the US/EU, apply the most basic teachings of Jesus in their everyday life, regardless

before Christianity spread in Europe in the Middle Ages, that wasn't the case, looking at something that happened 2000 yeas ago with today's mind, doesn't make non-believers look smart either

feel free to call me whatever you want, I've heard it all before ;)

What's ironic about that? 



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | RTX 3090 FE| Crappy Monitor| HTC Vive Pro :3

Baldeagle8 said:
donathos said:

Beyond that, I wonder, if the purpose that a belief in God provides is beyond "just keeping our species alive," then what precisely is that divinely ordained purpose? Singing hosannas?

Cliche answer, to love God and other people.

It may or may not be worth getting into, but I've always found this to be a strange sort of answer. God made people in order to have those people love him? In my honest opinion, that starts to look like a strange sort of deity. A questionable mentality at least. And then there are other related questions, such as what does this "love" consist of? Do we really mean "worship"? For after all, I know what love is primarily due to the relationships I've had with my parents, my friends, my wife, my daughter, and so forth; yet the relationship people are meant to have with God does not resemble these, imo. And then there is the further question of whether or not this God is deserving of my love.

As far as loving other people goes, as an atheist, I do love other people. Some of them. Not all of them. And if we mean that my purpose is that I should love all other people, again, I find it a funny sort of answer. Since we're dealing in cliches, I'll affirm that I don't love Hitler, nor do I think that to do so would be a worthy purpose, let alone "moral."

Baldeagle8 said:

Other than that, I guess we will or won't see... 

In a sense that's true, but as an atheist, my primary interest is not in seeing whether or not one of us is correct upon our deaths (or for that matter the ancient Greeks, or the Zoroastrians, or the Shoshone, or etc., etc., etc.; even if one adopts a religious mentality, seeking purpose or for any other reason, there are literally thousands of possibilities -- but the vast majority of people simply ride with whatever their parents told them to believe, it seems to me).

Rather, my primary interest is in living this life to the best of my ability. Thus the purpose I hold for my life matters greatly to how I choose to live it. If the suggestion is that a good way to spend my too-limited time on earth is worshiping and obeying an invisible sky daddy (or his terrestrial agents) based on ancient literature, well... beyond questions of proof/evidence, I have to say that this does not sound like the best use of anybody's time or energy, God's included.

If a God actually existed, and if he were anything approaching sane or moral, anything that was worthy of a person's love, then I would expect that he wouldn't need people to worship him, or even seek out such a thing. It's all too petty, too vain, too low. And if such a God wished to be genuinely loved, there are far better things he could do to deserve it than the kind of activities described in the Bible and promoted by various churches.



Peh said:
dark_gh0st_b0y said:

of course I believe it, unless you can prove otherwise?

the most ironic thing is that atheists in the US/EU, apply the most basic teachings of Jesus in their everyday life, regardless

before Christianity spread in Europe in the Middle Ages, that wasn't the case, looking at something that happened 2000 yeas ago with today's mind, doesn't make non-believers look smart either

feel free to call me whatever you want, I've heard it all before ;)

What's ironic about that? 

people applying the most basic teachings of a supposedly ''non-existent'' person their whole life, sounds like applying Pythagora's theorem and at the same time deny that Pythagoras ever existed



don't mind my username, that was more than 10 years ago, I'm a different person now, amazing how people change ^_^

SpokenTruth said:
dark_gh0st_b0y said:

people applying the most basic teachings of a supposedly ''non-existent'' person their whole life, sounds like applying Pythagora's theorem and at the same time deny that Pythagoras ever existed

You think Jesus was the first person to preach love and peace?

I honestly believe that he thinks he does. :X

Well, he also believes that God created science....so...

Last edited by Peh - on 04 April 2018

Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | RTX 3090 FE| Crappy Monitor| HTC Vive Pro :3