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Forums - Politics Discussion - School Shooting in South Florida

dirtylemons on 16 February 2018
Machiavellian said:
dirtylemons said:

Why would extremes be more favorable than moderation? Arming or disarming the entire populace seems like a recipe for disaster.

Because half measures do not work as we have seen.  If you want this type of stuff to go away or be reduced significantly.  There are a lot of guns in the US.  Getting a gun is very easy in the US for anyone.  Gun laws that really not going to deter someone from purchasing or obtaining a gun in the US unless it goes all out.  People that have their guns in the US will always preach about needing them for protection or some other excuse. 

Going back to the Wild West, would be like every nation having a nuke or the Cold War.  If everyone is armed everywhere then incidents can be responded to instantly and maybe less loss of life.  If you go the total ban, then you make illegal for anyone to have a gun and you put punitive crime.  No more stand your ground nonsense.  You kill with a gun you serve max time.  Hell, we could even make New York a prison for and dump anyone who disobey these rules.

But they already are being reduced significantly. Gun crime (and violence overall) has consistently gone down almost every year for over a quarter of a century. The current rates for the U.S. are less than half of what they were in the early 90s. I don't know what to attribute that to, but it would seem to be a good thing that gun violence is on the decline.



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jonager on 16 February 2018

Why every time there's a shooting like this, we make threads about it? why is it even in the news? I think the American people made clear long ago that they don't give a fu*ck about those kids, why? Because shooting after shooting, the only thing you hear about is politicians sending their prayers(as if praying to an imaginary god will save those kids) and then in 2 weeks everybody but their loved ones will have forgotten about this incident.

If Columbine massacre didn't change things, neither will this. Americans love their guns after all.



numberwang on 16 February 2018
SpokenTruth said:
numberwang said:

Do you think think Trump voters do most of the murders in the USA? Because most of the murders are concentrated in Democratic dominated districts.

1. Tell us again the political alignment of the majority of mass shooters?

2. If the Republicans would help the Democrats get the poor and socially under-served out of poverty, you'd have fewer murders in Democratic districts.  Instead, R's do everything they can to keep the poor poor because the resultant crime is a profitable enterprise and the poor can't exert social influence over the dominant white power structure.

1. Not Republican? The majority of murders in the US happen in heavy left/Democratic city districts (mostly gang related crimes).

2. Poverty is not a justification for murders, neither empirically nor theoretically. Guns cost money, people who are genuinely poor have no means to buy them.



VGPolyglot on 16 February 2018
numberwang said:
SpokenTruth said:

1. Tell us again the political alignment of the majority of mass shooters?

2. If the Republicans would help the Democrats get the poor and socially under-served out of poverty, you'd have fewer murders in Democratic districts.  Instead, R's do everything they can to keep the poor poor because the resultant crime is a profitable enterprise and the poor can't exert social influence over the dominant white power structure.

1. Not Republican? The majority of murders in the US happen in heavy left/Democratic city districts (mostly gang related crimes).

2. Poverty is not a justification for murders, neither empirically nor theoretically. Guns cost money, people who are genuinely poor have no means to buy them.

They can buy them off the street:

https://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/For-teens-illegal-guns-easy-to-get-on-streets-1283875.php

 

And even if guns are expensive, if you live in a poor neighbourhood when you're at risk of getting robbed you're going to need a way to defend yourself, so it makes sense that poorer places have higher violent crime rates. The more desperate you are the more risks you're willing to take.



numberwang on 16 February 2018
VGPolyglot said:
numberwang said:

1. Not Republican? The majority of murders in the US happen in heavy left/Democratic city districts (mostly gang related crimes).

2. Poverty is not a justification for murders, neither empirically nor theoretically. Guns cost money, people who are genuinely poor have no means to buy them.

They can buy them off the street:

https://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/For-teens-illegal-guns-easy-to-get-on-streets-1283875.php

 

And even if guns are expensive, if you live in a poor neighbourhood when you're at risk of getting robbed you're going to need a way to defend yourself, so it makes sense that poorer places have higher violent crime rates. The more desperate you are the more risks you're willing to take.

We are looking at two different phenomena here: mass shooters aren't poor but have different motives like notoriety, revenge, terrorism, mental illness and they find their way mostly with illegal guns or car attacks. The numbers have risen in the last years since Columbine because media amplifies the notoriety aspect and Islamic terrorism had some 'strong years'.

Overall murders/homicides have different motives, I would put them under the broader umbrella of societal decay, but non are related to 'conservatives, NRA, Christians, Trump-voters, Republicans', etc.



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VGPolyglot on 16 February 2018
numberwang said:
VGPolyglot said:

They can buy them off the street:

https://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/For-teens-illegal-guns-easy-to-get-on-streets-1283875.php

 

And even if guns are expensive, if you live in a poor neighbourhood when you're at risk of getting robbed you're going to need a way to defend yourself, so it makes sense that poorer places have higher violent crime rates. The more desperate you are the more risks you're willing to take.

We are looking at two different phenomena here: mass shooters aren't poor but have different motives like notoriety, revenge, terrorism, mental illness and they find their way mostly with illegal guns or car attacks. The numbers have risen in the last years since Columbine because media amplifies the notoriety aspect and Islamic terrorism had some 'strong years'.

Overall murders/homicides have different motives, I would put them under the broader umbrella of societal decay, but non are related to 'conservatives, NRA, Christians, Trump-voters, Republicans', etc.

Well, you tried to shift the discussion from mass shooters to shooters in general, so you're the one who tried to treat two different phenomena as one. Also, your murders picture? 1. It's all murders, not just gun related and 2. It is in sheer numbers, not per capita.



konnichiwa on 18 February 2018

Emma G. gave a good speech btw:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u4eHHlszWI






Bajablo on 21 February 2018

you need more of these people:
https://www.facebook.com/100007513365065/videos/1993503840910042/



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The_Yoda on 21 February 2018
Bajablo said:
you need more of these people:
https://www.facebook.com/100007513365065/videos/1993503840910042/

I have no audio on this PC, can you summarize what he says in those 6 minutes?



numberwang on 21 February 2018

Of the 27 Deadliest Mass Shooters, 26 of Them Had One Thing in Common

...almost all of the most recent deadly mass shooters have one thing in common: fatherlessness.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/markmeckler/2018/02/27-deadliest-mass-shooters-26-one-thing-common/