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Forums - Politics Discussion - Chancellor Merkel keeps open-gate policy, outrage breaks out

DonFerrari said:
Peh said:

Well, let's go for the option of voting the rightwing party, because the only concern you have are refugees fucking up your country. Let's go as far that that party will deal with the refugee crisis by not letting them in in your country so you can sleep safely at night. That issue may be resolved for you, but the goals of such a party are even worse than the issue you had with the refugees. So much worse that it completely fucks your country in a way you wouldn't have thought about. And refugees would be the smallest of all your problems.

Please show me what are all those problems the rightwing would bring to the country and economy when opposed to what left wing have already managed to screw up.

Screwed up? Germany's economy is doing just fine (good exports, very low unemployment, decent gdp growth taking in account a shrinking population of active workers, thanks to perpetually low birth rates). Violence from recent immigrants is less than people make it to be - if you take a random person, it remains a minim percentage of bad things that could happen - comparing to five years ago, the reduced car accidents far outnumber the increase in terrorism.



Bet with PeH: 

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I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

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palou said:
DonFerrari said:

Please show me what are all those problems the rightwing would bring to the country and economy when opposed to what left wing have already managed to screw up.

Screwed up? Germany's economy is doing just fine (good exports, very low unemployment, decent gdp growth taking in account a shrinking population of active workers, thanks to perpetually low birth rates). Violence from recent immigrants is less than people make it to be - if you take a random person, it remains a minim percentage of bad things that could happen - comparing to five years ago, the reduced car accidents far outnumber the increase in terrorism.

And what are the propositions from right wing that will crash it? And don`t get fouled by official numbers on a small timeframe.

Brazilians swalloed the PT excuse that the country was very good and growing, and it took 13 years for the bill to come, and it came fast and the economy in 1 or 2 years dropped 10 years.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

And what are the propositions from right wing that will crash it? And don`t get fouled by official numbers on a small timeframe.

The most far-right party proposes Germany to leave the EU (literally, anti Euro party.) If there is one country that has been profitting from the union, it's Germany. Exports towards other european countries, strongly aided by the Union, are absolutely ridiculous, and are largely responsible for giving Germany it's economic powerhouse status in the first place.

Official numbers coming from Germany are also a little more trustworthy than those coming from Brazil, by any means. Pretty much all independant international organizations tracking the data (example: https://www.transparency.org/country/#DEU) put Germany high up in the transparency department, while Brazil's documentation is, as a whole, lacking. Also, things like GDP growth, etc... are tracked by international organizations, not 

It is very unlikely for Germany to have a sudden, massive crash in the first place; the economy is very diversified (something that really should not be very hard to confirm), and the financial position stable (more money is owed to Germans than Germans owe money. Also, this can't be faked, as debts are tracked with rigour by potential loaners.)



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

palou said:

And what are the propositions from right wing that will crash it? And don`t get fouled by official numbers on a small timeframe.

The most far-right party proposes Germany to leave the EU (literally, anti Euro party.) If there is one country that has been profitting from the union, it's Germany. Exports towards other european countries, strongly aided by the Union, are absolutely ridiculous, and are largely responsible for giving Germany it's economic powerhouse status in the first place.

Official numbers coming from Germany are also a little more trustworthy than those coming from Brazil, by any means. Pretty much all independant international organizations tracking the data (example: https://www.transparency.org/country/#DEU) put Germany high up in the transparency department, while Brazil's documentation is, as a whole, lacking. Also, things like GDP growth, etc... are tracked by international organizations, not 

It is very unlikely for Germany to have a sudden, massive crash in the first place; the economy is very diversified (something that really should not be very hard to confirm), and the financial position stable (more money is owed to Germans than Germans owe money. Also, this can't be faked, as debts are tracked with rigour by potential loaners.)

1) Being out o EU isn`t necessarily a bad thing, deciding to not negotiate with other countries would be bad. But one thing don`t demand the other.

2) The Brazilian numbers aren`t necessarily cooked, they just present what they thing it`s better for then.

3) No it isn`t unlikely. Brazil economy is diversified, USA economy and Europe economy in 2008 was diversified. The economy crash they suffered came from left wing economy involving market excessive regulation and government involvment, not from the lack of diversification. So Germany isn`t safe from crashing under it`s own weight by populism.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

OdinHades said:

I'm with Merkel on this one. Damn right the refugees come with problems. It costs a ton of money, it asks for a lot from german citizens and it will continue to bring problems for decades to come. But I for once do not want to be remembered by future generations as an asshole who doesn't care about other people. The sacrifices we have to make are little in the big picture. All day long people here are yelling about how they would love to help people who live under bad conditions but they are just not able to. Then they pay their 5 € a month to save the children and feel like a better human. Now, right now, when they actually have the chance to do something, they do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Instead, they want people out of their country, they are afraid they couldn't be as rich as they are tomorrow and whatnot. Nationalism on the rise because of fear and hate. It makes me sick.

Ok, that's just some people, I also know many guys and lads who are doing everything they can. We are helping out in a local refugee camp. We don't get paid, we do it just to help these people. There are 12 families here form Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq. All good people, my son loves to play with the other children. We help them maintain their houses, explain them how everything works in germany (the waste seperation is a real problem for them ^^), we translate their documents and really do all we can to help them integrate. But then we also get up in the middle of the night to fight some goddamn nazis who are throwing rocks at the camp for no reason at all. They don't know these people, they just hate them for no reason at all. It makes me so fucking sick.

Anyway, people are fast with prejudices. Of course there are bound to be some assholes in such a big refugee crisis, but I am absolutely convinced that the majority really needs help. Countless refugees told me how they didn't want to leave their country but they had no choice. They are also not uneducated as you hear it from certain groups. In our refugee camps, there is a high school teacher, a doctor and even a physics professor! All they need to do is learn our language and they could help our economy in a great way. Germany is dying for educated workers for crying out loud!

I beg you, if you want to make any judge in this topic, first go out there and really deal with what's up. Talk to the people, see for yourself how "bad" they really are. Don't just jump to conclusions because of overdramatized stories in the news. Don't judge a whole group if people just because two or three assholes decided to go postal. It's not fair in any way.

These people have nowhere else to go. It's not our duty to help them, but it is a big fat giant test of history. Think very closely about how you and your generation should be remembered in future history books. That's all I have to say.

So your response to those generalizing and sensationalizing this situation in a negative way is...to generalize and sensationalize this in the opposite direction?   I oppose the free-flow of migrants not because I hate them or believer the majority are bad.  I recognize that's not the case.  But what you ignore is what the very governemtn that is all for keeping the borders oppen admits:  there are huge, real security risks and potential threats to national stability here.  You're story is touching, but the job of the government of any nation must be an impartial judge with concerns to the security and well-being of their people, not all people.  They must be blind to both positive AND negative prejudices.  It the duty of every governemtn to decide impartially what is best for their people.  The government of a sovereign nation cannot be swayed by emotional appeals from either side to go against the wellfare of their people.  In short, someone charged with the safeguarding of he wellfare of 80 million people cannot be moved to any decisions purely based on the story of 12 families, no matter how touching.  They have to take a distant view and account for their people's wellbeing.  Cultural fragmentation, financial and economic burdens, security risks, all these are real dangers with mass influxes of migrants who are unwilling to integrate in to society (or unable, which is oftent the case with massive groups of refugees). 

I'm not saying build a wall around Germany, I don't think any rational person is.  But caution has to be exercised, some kind of screening needs to be in place.  Letting bad apples through doesn't just endanger Germans, it endangers the refugees.  Where do you think those psychos live?  In the same camps as those innocent refugees.  And it's not like free movement through Europe is the only way the EU and UN can help these people.  A modicum of control, policing, and security would serve all groups better. 



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Taking a principled stand is still foolish if it has negative consequences.

The issue is that Angela Merkel unilaterally imposed her will on the entire EU by making an emotional decision. As a result, the EU has fragmented, racism and the far right have risen and Germany is less safe and stable of a nation.

She could have taken Syrian Refugees but she decided to take anyone... that was foolish.


People need to realize that this refugee issue will have long standing issues.

Maybe in the longer term its a boon or maybe in the long term Germany turns into France.

The point is this issue was made worse by Merkels decision.