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Forums - General Discussion - Intelligence - nature vs nurture

JinxRake on 09 August 2015

Here's an interesting debate that I've been studying for the past couple of days: is intelligence linked directly to your genetic make-up, or can it be trained and developed throughout life?

In other words: are we born smart / stupid? Or does our environment and education mold us into being as such?


Also, can someone not born gifted reach the same heights as someone born with a greater affinity for a certain area? 

 

Just curious of your thoughts. 



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SamuelRSmith on 10 August 2015

I think it comes down to enjoyment. I studied Computer Science at Uni, and there was a clear dividing line between those who struggled and those who did well.

Those who struggled were the individuals who took the subject primarily because they wanted a high paying job/wanted to impress family, etc. Those who did well are the ones who did it because they enjoyed the subject.

When the "career" guys got an assignment they struggled with, they panicked/gave up/tried to get somebody else to do it. When the "fun" guys got an assignment they struggled with, they found it fun, you would see them discussing solutions with friends - not "copying" or anything, it was a competition to see who came up with the best solution.

Same is true back at school. The kids who tried their best to get out of homework, found lessons boring, etc, ended up falling down to the bottom sets. The kids who actually did and enjoyed the homework, participated in lessons, ended up climbing to the top.

Now, what causes some people to enjoy certain things and disregard others, I wouldn't know. It's hard to argue either nature or nurture, considering that siblings often have very different attitudes from each other on all manner of things.

EDIT: And the same is true regarding sports. I remember disliking sports from a very young age, and so I never really got good at them. Other kids loved sports, and ended up playing for local teams as they grew older.



SvennoJ on 10 August 2015

Both, nature gives you the potential, nurture the chance to realize that potential.

No matter how hard you work, you can't alter your basic affinities. You can learn to utilize your mind to the best of your abilities, yet someone born smarter can still outperform you.
http://www.sciencedump.com/content/10-people-highest-iq-world-infographic
Try to catch up to those people...



JinxRake on 10 August 2015
SvennoJ said:
Both, nature gives you the potential, nurture the chance to realize that potential.

No matter how hard you work, you can't alter your basic affinities. You can learn to utilize your mind to the best of your abilities, yet someone born smarter can still outperform you.
http://www.sciencedump.com/content/10-people-highest-iq-world-infographic
Try to catch up to those people...


I would like to point out Judit Polgar in that list, which basically invalidates what you've tried to argue. 



SvennoJ on 10 August 2015
JinxRake said:
SvennoJ said:
Both, nature gives you the potential, nurture the chance to realize that potential.

No matter how hard you work, you can't alter your basic affinities. You can learn to utilize your mind to the best of your abilities, yet someone born smarter can still outperform you.
http://www.sciencedump.com/content/10-people-highest-iq-world-infographic
Try to catch up to those people...


I would like to point out Judit Polgar in that list, which basically invalidates what you've tried to argue. 

What? You don't think many other people have tried the same with their kids?
She had the potential, her parents maximized that potential.



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JinxRake on 10 August 2015

I quote the wiki a bit:

Polgár was born on 23 July 1976 in Budapest, to a Hungarian Jewish family.[6] Polgár and her two older sisters, Grandmaster Susan and International Master Sofia, were part of an educational experiment carried out by their father László Polgár, in an attempt to prove that children could make exceptional achievements if trained in a specialist subject from a very early age.[7] "Geniuses are made, not born," was László's thesis. He and his wife Klára educated their three daughters at home, with chess as the specialist subject.[8] László also taught his three daughters the international language Esperanto. They received resistance from Hungarian authorities as home-schooling was not a "socialist" approach. They also received criticism at the time from some western commentators for depriving the sisters of a normal childhood. However, by most reports the girls appeared happy and well-adjusted.


They managed it with not just one child, but three. How many siblings do you actually know that are perfectly similar in terms of intellectual ability?
She didn't have a "gift" for chess that her parents nurtured but her development was guided in such a way as to produce a chess prodigy.
I'd say the results speak for themselves, wouldn't you?



SvennoJ on 10 August 2015

Interesting, yet you're talking about a specialist subject.

In my own experience affinity definitely plays a role. Some areas easily clicked with me in school while trying to help very motivated others didn't get them to the same level, In other areas it was the other way around. It's of course easier to get motivated for things that come more easily to you.

The question is can they repeat the experiment with other kids, or is it an exception. Siblings aren't perfectly similar in ability, yet they still share many of the same genes. And chess is also a very specialist area. It would have been interesting to see if her IQ changed dramatically over time. You can raise your IQ a bit over time with practice, yet can you go from 100 to 170 by working hard?