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Forums - Politics Discussion - Alternatives to the Left-Right Paradigm.

WolfpackN64 on 13 February 2015
sc94597 said:
WolfpackN64 said:
I consider myself a contemporary marxist, my views have already transcended the triangle ^^

Marx's views fit fine on this triangle. They're mostly in the red area. The communist manifesto outlines his and Engels views well enough. They believed that a totalitarian state by the proleriat was necessary to remove hierarchies and then that state would wither away out of not being a necessity (as social culture would change.) 

That's my point, I adhere to a more modern interpretation of Marx theories, excluding the dictatorship of the proletariat and the 'utopia' afterwards.



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sc94597 on 13 February 2015
WolfpackN64 said:
sc94597 said:
WolfpackN64 said:
I consider myself a contemporary marxist, my views have already transcended the triangle ^^

Marx's views fit fine on this triangle. They're mostly in the red area. The communist manifesto outlines his and Engels views well enough. They believed that a totalitarian state by the proleriat was necessary to remove hierarchies and then that state would wither away out of not being a necessity (as social culture would change.) 

That's my point, I adhere to a more modern interpretation of Marx theories, excluding the dictatorship of the proletariat and the 'utopia' afterwards.

Then why call yourself a Marxist? You're just a social democrat/democratic socialist  then. That would be somewhere around where the Greens are. Marx did two things really. He analyzed how the world was and then made predictions about how the world might and should change. You can agree with his assessment of the world while still disagreeing about how it might/should change(which you seem to do.)



WolfpackN64 on 13 February 2015
sc94597 said:
WolfpackN64 said:
sc94597 said:
WolfpackN64 said:
I consider myself a contemporary marxist, my views have already transcended the triangle ^^

Marx's views fit fine on this triangle. They're mostly in the red area. The communist manifesto outlines his and Engels views well enough. They believed that a totalitarian state by the proleriat was necessary to remove hierarchies and then that state would wither away out of not being a necessity (as social culture would change.) 

That's my point, I adhere to a more modern interpretation of Marx theories, excluding the dictatorship of the proletariat and the 'utopia' afterwards.

Then why call yourself a Marxist? You're just a social democrat/democratic socialist  then. That would be somewhere around where the Greens are. Marx did two things really. He analyzed how the world was and then made predictions about how the world might and should change. You can agree with his assessment of the world while still disagreeing about how it might/should change(which you seem to do.)

Because the Social Democrats and the Greens are still way to soft on the left side for what I would describe myself as. No serious contemporary Marxist talks about the 'dictatorship of the proletariat' anymore, but that doesn't make us Social Dems



Leadified on 13 February 2015

Hm, where would an anarcho-communist fit in all this? I would also assume a syndicalist would fall under "confederalism".



Munchies on 13 February 2015

Nice spectrum. I'm a libertarian, currently flirting with anarchocapitalism.



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Nirvana_Nut85 on 13 February 2015

Ron Paul Libertarian over here!



" Rebellion Against Tyrants Is Obedience To God"

sc94597 on 13 February 2015
WolfpackN64 said:
sc94597 said:
WolfpackN64 said:
sc94597 said:
WolfpackN64 said:
I consider myself a contemporary marxist, my views have already transcended the triangle ^^

Marx's views fit fine on this triangle. They're mostly in the red area. The communist manifesto outlines his and Engels views well enough. They believed that a totalitarian state by the proleriat was necessary to remove hierarchies and then that state would wither away out of not being a necessity (as social culture would change.) 

That's my point, I adhere to a more modern interpretation of Marx theories, excluding the dictatorship of the proletariat and the 'utopia' afterwards.

Then why call yourself a Marxist? You're just a social democrat/democratic socialist  then. That would be somewhere around where the Greens are. Marx did two things really. He analyzed how the world was and then made predictions about how the world might and should change. You can agree with his assessment of the world while still disagreeing about how it might/should change(which you seem to do.)

Because the Social Democrats and the Greens are still way to soft on the left side for what I would describe myself as. No serious contemporary Marxist talks about the 'dictatorship of the proletariat' anymore, but that doesn't make us Social Dems

Then you're a little bit more left than the greens/social democrats on the triangle. I mean, what ideas do you have that aren't ecompassed by the spectrum? Also almost all of marx's theory of socialism relies on a dictatorial state to transition from capitalism to communism. I don't see how one can call themselves a marxist without believing this.  



sc94597 on 13 February 2015
Leadified said:
Hm, where would an anarcho-communist fit in all this? I would also assume a syndicalist would fall under "confederalism".

I was trying to think of this as well. Mutualists and individualist anarchists would likely be at varying degrees on the non-hierarchial side of anarcho-capitalism. Syndicalism and communism though, depending on the anarcho-syndicalist/anarcho-communist will likely be on varying positions on that line. All anarchists are individualists in the sense that they believe collective rights come from individual rights (rather than the opposite view that individual rights come from collective rights.) 



generic-user-1 on 13 February 2015
sc94597 said:
WolfpackN64 said:
sc94597 said:
WolfpackN64 said:
I consider myself a contemporary marxist, my views have already transcended the triangle ^^

Marx's views fit fine on this triangle. They're mostly in the red area. The communist manifesto outlines his and Engels views well enough. They believed that a totalitarian state by the proleriat was necessary to remove hierarchies and then that state would wither away out of not being a necessity (as social culture would change.) 

That's my point, I adhere to a more modern interpretation of Marx theories, excluding the dictatorship of the proletariat and the 'utopia' afterwards.

Then why call yourself a Marxist? You're just a social democrat/democratic socialist  then. That would be somewhere around where the Greens are. Marx did two things really. He analyzed how the world was and then made predictions about how the world might and should change. You can agree with his assessment of the world while still disagreeing about how it might/should change(which you seem to do.)

well, greens have another agenda depending on the country, the german greens, maybe the most succesfull are not on the left wing, they dont realy care about freedom or democratie, they are happy with a mild dictatorship.

oh and he is a democratic socialist.   btw calling someone a marxist isnt realy helpfull, those guys are called communists.



Soleron on 13 February 2015

I think I'd be slightly outside the triangle to the top-left. Since I believe in some elements of socialism and capitalism but mostly I'm anti-power. Be that individual power, state power, corporate power, judicial power, and so on. Most of the problems in society are caused by abuse of power by special interests of all kinds leading to suboptimal laws and implementation. It's not an issue that can be solved within the current system.