This is the problem i'm talking about i'm afraid, i haven't ignored pre 2009 numbers because i gave the overall numbers at the end of my post, and i've showed it's just as likely one console could be ahead of the other. The variables are still too great to call it one way or another, saying the Xbox 360 is still ahead due to it's first year isn't anymore likely then saying the PS3 is ahead given the numbers we have.

I didn't say the PS3 is more likely to be ahead, i gave an example showing how it could easily be ahead to conteract all these posters and threads that seem to want to state as fact the 360 is ahead of the PS3 when the truth is we still don't know either way.

Nothing cowardly about anything, it's an important topic that keeps getting brought up over and over again, and if i just posted in one of the other threads my post would just got lost in all the FUD. It's important to set the record straight on this.

XB1 will have needed to ship 13m not 12.5m, IMO :)

It's pretty obvious 360 is second imo, and has been all along.

It just can't be confirmed (and never will be likely.)

i just wish Sony and MS gives us the actual sold numbers, just like sony did with the PS4 a couple of times last year...

Also, FYI, PS3 made their 80m annoucement 3 weeks after Microsoft. Including THAT Q, since then 360 has shipped more than PS3, that isn't even guessing either, as from that point onwards we have PS3 quarterly figures.

Why does this even matter? after almost 10yrs there is no more than 5-10M sold between them. One dominated in NA and the other dominated everywhere else. And people are still arguing about a finished race? let's move on and let those platforms die already.

Yep. Some people can't except that Xbox never has and never will outsell Playstation.

Let them be, they always make me laugh with their arguments :p

If we look at the numbers and your post I would say it's the other way around :P

Are you sure?

Here is a point that I think many are in fact missing, Microsoft down production on all Xbox platforms in June of last year and that included the xbox360, while Sony did not!

Based on that info is if Sony is out in production, and Microsoft is in down Production, than would that mean there is in fact a good chance Microsoft has or had a surplus of existing console units that were made but not sold yet due to having to cut down production number's /month for each platform they make! And that based on the fall Christmas season waited to shift more to the fall and let what was on the shelf sell first?

Why do you think Microsoft has not really talked about increasing the production of units? And increasing its output?

Take a look at the fall section of deals they had on existing units that were listed as limited run, but yet they had more than just a few, as a matter of fact many people show off pictures of the stock Microsoft had in stores to sell, along with heavy promotions on said limited boxed bundles.

If the production of units was selling at a much faster pace, that would be a key point of increasing production for the month per system right?

I think it answers'  itself 

Because they At Microsoft do not need too because the demand was not as high until fall season and even than they had an existing surplus or units, and since Sony ships to more countries than Microsoft it is very unlikely Microsoft has outshipped Sony, not on the xbox360 or the xbox one.

In my opinion, with no talk about production increase, that is the largest key point i think. That points to the xbox360 not having more shipped unit's, is it for sure a fact..No, but with a down draw on production and another company did not draw down it would be a very logical guess.