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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Zelda franchise declining?

The other thread about Miyamoto’s comments seems to have centered around Halo and Mario so I figured a new thread would be useful for Zelda.  Miyamoto makes two points that many are conflating but that I think should be considered separate.  The first is that he isn’t happy with Zelda:TP’s sales in Japan which seems to have fed the “Zelda is dying” train of thought.  The second is that Zelda has lost the interest of gamers or become stale if you will. 

 

Except for Japan I think it’s a bit ridiculous to say Zelda is on the decline and dying is too much of a stretch even for Japan (it has sold 600k which is still pretty good).  Twilight Princess is already the 4th best selling Zelda game worldwide and is closing in on 3rd with nearly 4.5 million sold.  In Japan it’s the worst selling though it will probably surpass Wind Waker and Majora’s Mask.  In North America it’s the 3rd best selling (2.5 million) and in Others only Ocarina of Time has outsold it (1.3 million).  This performance is even better when you consider that Wii + GameCube is still below any other Nintendo home console in units sold.

The following list shows why I think Zelda is far from dying. Best to worst selling by release (1-original Zelda, 2- Zelda 2, etc.) with likely ending place of TP at the end.

 

Declining-        1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.  7th

Worldwide-     4, 1, 3, 7, 2, 6, 5.  3rd

Japan-             1, 2, 4, 3, 5, 6, 7.  5th

America-         4, 1, 7, 3, 6, 2, 5.  3rd

Others-            4, 7, 6, 1, 3, 5, 2.  2nd

 

Interestingly this shows the divide that I think exists between Zelda, Zelda 3, Zelda 64, and Zelda:TP (the core games) and Zelda 2, Majora’s Mask, and Wind Waker (the “different” ones).  The core games sell better than the different ones and I think the notion of decline stems from the fact that the prior two games were different.  I think that shows the series isn’t becoming stale to most.  Some may have tired of it but some tire of every game.  I’ve personally grown tired of Halo but that doesn’t mean I’d say it’s in decline just because of that or even if Halo 3 only sells 5-6 million.  Same with Final Fantasy which I got tired of after FFIII, doesn’t means it’s stale or in decline because the last 2 are 5th and 6th in sales. So arguing over the "staleness" of Zelda is a bit beside the point since everyone has a different opinion on the matter.  Even more specious is to combine an individual American's opinion with Japanese sales and then combing them into a universal assumption.

 

That being said I do think Zelda has two growing problems.  The first is that they are getting easier with every iteration.  I probably died more playing the original Zelda than I have in all the 3D Zeldas combined (the last 2 I didn’t die at all except when I wanted to).  I think that is the franchise’s main problem in Japan.  The second is that Zelda has steadily become less open-ended and more linear.  The first Zelda allowed you to go virtually anywhere you wanted and even play the dungeons out of order.  Twilight Princess felt like it was leading me around everywhere, I never felt like I had a chance to just go explore or do things when I wanted.  I don’t think they are getting stale since the 4 core games that follow the traditional Zelda model are the best selling.  It’s the different games that change the model that don’t sell as well. 

 

So the sales don't justify the notion that the Zelda franchise is stale overall or in decline. Sorry if that was long, I’m and unabashed Zelda whore so this topic is of particular interest to me.



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I think you're right! Almost 500.000 sales is still a whole lot, a lot of games even on the WII could only be jealous about that amount. Take Cooking Mama for example, now if that game is a total flop and dissappointment when it comes to sales I totally agree with Miyamoto-San. But Zelda is the third best selling WII game in Japan and is the best selling "non party-game", so for that... the game is a succes!! Pokemon Battle Revolution and Fire Emblem for example, also first party games, don't even come any near Zelda TP, so what are these games then? Complete failures? Not to mention all the other games such as Naruto, Excite Truck, Mezase Tsuri Master etc.

I don't mind the game is not all too difficult, there's plenty to do and the atmosphere is huge in the game! Two things I like the most.



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WiiGirl76 said:

I think you're right! Almost 500.000 sales is still a whole lot, a lot of games even on the WII could only be jealous about that amount. Take Cooking Mama for example, now if that game is a total flop and dissappointment when it comes to sales I totally agree with Miyamoto-San. But Zelda is the third best selling WII game in Japan and is the best selling "non party-game", so for that... the game is a succes!! Pokemon Battle Revolution and Fire Emblem for example, also first party games, don't even come any near Zelda TP, so what are these games then? Complete failures? Not to mention all the other games such as Naruto, Excite Truck, Mezase Tsuri Master etc.

I don't mind the game is not all too difficult, there's plenty to do and the atmosphere is huge in the game! Two things I like the most.


Well I hate to be the third commentor on a thread I created but I'm left with no choice unfortunately.  I can see that making it easier allows more people to enjoy the game though I think they should add a hard mode or something.  Extra and toughser enemies for those desiring more challenge.  I agree though it isn't a failure in Japan any objective terms.  Saying it's a failure for a Zelda game simply shows how great the series is.



Loved your comments and I think that you are right- it did sale very well for a launch title and also one must consider that sales are still trinkling in. How much is it selling now in Japan? I don't own a Wii so I can't comment on it's level of difficulty but if it's like WW I can understand your point. I don't know about you but in WW even though I rarely died (I did a lot of crazy things) I thought some of the things that I had to do were challenging. So although I could "live", there were some puzzle and challenges that seemed impossible. I hated leaping out of those plants mouths... And then there were some puzzles and secrets that took me a while to find. As long as I don't have to manage the direction of the wind I can handle anything TP can through at me (I hated sailing). But since I have heard many a complaint on difficulty, it wouldn't kill them to add a hard setting... I mean Fire Emblem for GC had 4 or 5 setting so why can't Zelda. Also I must add that sometime I just like to find out what's going to happen next. I am currently playing Fire Emblem on easy just so that I can read the story... {and not worry or mourn my allies). Even on easy, if you get careless you can get one of you characters killed and unlike most games when they die they stay dead. I am with you, I wish that they would make another Zelda just like the very first. Heck, they could keep the same weapons just change up the maps a bit over and under and hide the weapons and I am golden. ....I hope the next Zelda will not suffer from Miyamoto's doubts. PS Why can't Nintendo make a Halo type game? Use Mario Characters, and have it so you can make you characters off of all the races in the Kingdom. There doesn't have to be blood and gore, just a thrill.



The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Nintendo 0.56 1.64 1.02 3.22
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Nintendo 0.04 0.85 0.28 1.17

The Legend Of Zelda: Wind Waker Nintendo 0.86 2.44 1.05 4.35

The Legend Of Zelda: Ocarina Of Time Nintendo 1.46 4.08 2.06 7.60
The Legend Of Zelda: Majoras Mask Nintendo 0.74 1.89 0.73 3.36

Outside of Japan Twilight Princess has done pretty well for itself ... I imagine that it will probably pass Wind Waker on the Wii alone after it is reduced to $19.99; when you add in the Gamecube numbers I expect total sales to be only surpassed by OoT. The reason I think it has been performing worse and worse in Japan is that the series no longer feels as fresh or new as it once did.



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Hmmm it is not bad but still I think it is dissapointing it was the only good game on the Wii and many people who bought the Wii just bought Zelda with it. There was no other good game. And it is still the only GOOD game on the Wii...Tell me if I am wrong...Sure good games will come but only Zelda was a good game all the others games were around average.






Oh yeah Super Paper Mario has released...So almost five months there was only zelda;.






Well, I would say thats YOUR opinion, and I am sure others share it as well. There was Wario Ware, which showed off what you could do with gestures for the Wii. I also enjoyed Elebits, which shows alot of creativity for a new experience, and the controls were simple and effective. As far as popular hits from Nintendo, however, Zelda has been the only one so far.



oh thats a load of shite its the second best game franchise in the world and nintendo already hinted a wii sequal. Gta will die before Zelda, I know for a fact because Zelda has a much stronger fanbase



Well Zelda has no longer difficult bosses or regular enemys but the puzzles was a bit difficult but for us that have played the other Zelda games sees those Puzzels right away and thats disappointing that they can't come up whit more new Puzzels OK you get some new puzzles every game but the series are not dieing but it has to get more difficult enemys and bosses. The bosses are fun and easy but the enemys are only annoying. I remember OoT and WW those had a lot more difficult bosses and enemys we know that Nintendo can do it.



My dog is way beyond my ranking list than you.

 

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