Espresso is actually not as weak as some people think it is and I never once thought it was. The 15GFlop estimate is based on estimation that's on outdated documentations as well. They already modified the 750 once to get better FP performance on the Gekko and nobody knows what they did with the Broadway or the Espresso afterwards. The only thing we still know is that the Wii U is incredibly efficient while not matching up in power to the X1 or PS4 is about it. We need more data than all this guess work bullshit.

15GFLOPS is based around outdated document that stated that Wii's CPU was 2.9GFLOPS or something...

I always asked if it is possible to improve performance of PowerPC750 cores while maintaining compatibility and people said not possible yet I don't agree since it is still basically PowerPC750 design. I wonder how much they could have improved the IPC from Wii's Broadway to Wii U's Espresso... 5-10%,15-20% or higher?

We will never know except if someone gets hands on development kits and then we would probably be under NDA.

Marcan42 on Twitter is sure it is regular PowerPC750, yet I beg differ.

It's possible to make an avaliable technology to be more efficient until they hit a theoretical cap in the design depdending on the process and material used. Marcan said it's 750 based, not that it's a regular one since we already know the Gekko wasn't a straight up 750 but a variant to start with so there is noway the Espresso is a straight up 750CL OC'ed in a tri core configuration, shit isn't that simple since they actually did R&D into the final hardware. What we need are benchmark tools that maybe a dev can run on Wii U systems to get a good average without leaking actual specs. Which I doubt they'll do in their spare time since they are not getting paid to do so.

I wonder if your going to doubt this hackers work. 

You know what this means, right ? 15 gflops is actaully really close to the estimate of the theoretical performance. 

I know his work quiet well since I'm also in the mod scene, but he's not the God of computing so he can't see all the SIMDs in there from voodoo magic without documentation, and until somebody writes legit benchmarking tools that can actually push the hardware, we won't have hard numbers, and that's what I want to see instead of all the guesswork that's been going on for about a year now.

He pretty much said that those cores are exactly the same from broadwell aside from clocks and cache so it's safe to assume that it has a 64 bit FPU much like the broadway. What's more is that the ibm espresso can't deviate too much from it's archiecture otherwise it won't do backwards compatibility. BTW IBM has better things to do than to improve on the crappy architecture of the gekko/PowerPC 7xx series cores such getting that new POWER8 processor out there. 

The problem with your claim is that you don't have a reliable source to back them up with. You don't know what IBM or AMD actually did for Nintendo because they will remove and add SIMD to their chips(same for X1 and PS4,) what the contract was, or the design process of the Wii U in it's RAW form, or the hard numbers. They are all conjecture. You are just "assuming," and Marcan never said they are exactly the same either, they have similar architecture which is a "no shit" since it's based on the same original design. Don't put words in his mouth lol.

And yes I know the SIMD are the same before you go crazy :P

Then you should know that the floating point performance will scale exactly like that. 15 glops it is and most likely is. 

dahuman said: The problem with your claim is that you don't have a reliable source to back them up with. You don't know what IBM or AMD actually did for Nintendo because they will remove and add SIMD to their chips(same for X1 and PS4,) what the contract was, or the design process of the Wii U in it's RAW form, or the hard numbers. They are all conjecture. You are just "assuming," and Marcan never said they are exactly the same either, they have similar architecture which is a "no shit" since it's based on the same original design. Don't put words in his mouth lol.

So marcan42 isn't a reliable source ? BTW AMD doesn't have any experience in Power architectures just so you know so them redesigning the espresso would be a disaster just like amd bulldozer. 

@Bold What could I be missing by the words of "yes, three Broadways and more cache."

He specifically said three broadways. Not "variant", not "based-on" or "similar", he flat out said "three broadways". 

fatslob-:O said: dahuman said: And yes I know the SIMD are the same before you go crazy :P Then you should know that the floating point performance will scale exactly like that. 15 glops it is and most likely is.  dahuman said: The problem with your claim is that you don't have a reliable source to back them up with. You don't know what IBM or AMD actually did for Nintendo because they will remove and add SIMD to their chips(same for X1 and PS4,) what the contract was, or the design process of the Wii U in it's RAW form, or the hard numbers. They are all conjecture. You are just "assuming," and Marcan never said they are exactly the same either, they have similar architecture which is a "no shit" since it's based on the same original design. Don't put words in his mouth lol.  So marcan42 isn't a reliable source ? BTW AMD doesn't have any experience in Power architectures just so you know so them redesigning the espresso would be a disaster just like amd bulldozer.  @Bold What could I be missing by the words of "yes, three Broadways and more cache." He specifically said three broadways. Not "variant", not "based-on" or "similar", he flat out said "three broadways".

I do know, I'm just getting hungry so I don't feel like trolling anymore lol.