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Forums - Politics Discussion - Obama wants unlimited credit? Sounds crazy-

spurgeonryan said:

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/120612-636088-obama-seeks-power-to-raise-debt-ceiling.htm?p=full

 

Does this sound like a good idea to you guys? I think we need some responsibility and accountability.



Say it it with me. Congress spends the money. GOOD! now read this.

The congress spends the money, not the president. So people who blame the president for the debt  are just very low information voters.

Article I, Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.



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Bong Lover said:
HappySqurriel said:
theprof00 said:
obama is frustrated because congress is impotent. Whenever they can't agree to a debt ceiling it looks bad to the ratings companies. If we have unlimited credit, we can still argue about money but not have to worry about looking bad. It seems sound to me.

You're on a speeding train that is heading for brick wall and you're upset that the siren warning the conductor to apply breaks is too loud ...

The debt to GDP ratio has grown from (roughly) 40% in 2000 to over 100% today, the deficit is over $1 Trillion dollars and shows no signs of falling, unfunded liabilities are now starting to come due (pushing spending up), the credit rating is falling (pusing interest rates up), and we will likely see another recession in the next 5 years.


Please explain how the annual deficit shows no sign of falling?


No sign of falling was an incorrect way of phrasing what I was trying to say, no sign of being eliminated in a reasonable time frame is more accurate ...

The deficit has been reduced over the past few years as short term increases in spending have expired, but a $1 Trillion structural deficit remains. Elected officials pretend that this isn't an issue and proposed $1 trillion in spending cuts over a decade starting years from now (representing a tiny portion of the deficit) or insignificant tax increases.



Aielyn said:
Kasz216 said:
Actually no, no they can't.

If you can't exercise ownership rights, you don't own anything.

The whole point of ownership is that you either alone, or in concert with other owners have control over what you own.

Ever heard of a contract?

Putting it another way, it's kind of like how the managers of a publicly-traded company are legally obliged to make every effort to make profits for their investors. The investors are the ones who own the company, but they don't have a direct say in its operation.

And as I understand it, while the board is chosen by the president and confirmed by the senate, they have an advisory council from the banks. If I were to describe the system as it stands, I would describe it as "public-private". It's majority public-owned, but with private ownership as well. So it's not quite so easily put in black-and-white terms that you Americans seem to love so much.

I have heard of a contract.   They can be terminated by the owner.  The managers of a publicaly traded company can be fired by any time at the behest of its investors.

Hence the difference.