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Forums - Politics Discussion - Obama wants unlimited credit? Sounds crazy-

Aielyn on 01 January 2013
spurgeonryan said:

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/120612-636088-obama-seeks-power-to-raise-debt-ceiling.htm?p=full

 

Does this sound like a good idea to you guys? I think we need some responsibility and accountability.

It wouldn't give him permission to spend more money. Congress appropriates the money, the president doesn't.

The debt ceiling is just giving permission to borrow the money to pay for things already appropriated. Raising the debt ceiling doesn't let him spend more money, it prevents America from defaulting on the debts it already has.

Taking control of the debt ceiling away from congress is simply a way to stop it from being used as a political football, to keep the democrats and republicans from playing chicken with America's entire economy at stake.



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kaneada on 01 January 2013
Metallicube said:
So we're gonna settle the problem of debt with more debt? Sounds logical to me... -_-


It sound...That's how most millionares have prospered in America...you create debt, let it go bad, then finance it when no one else wants to pick it up because the reprecussions are too great. Donald Trump was famous for it.



-- Nothing is nicer than seeing your PS3 on an HDTV through an HDMI cable for the first time.

Kasz216 on 01 January 2013
Branko2166 said:
Printing money is all well and good as long as there are countries willing to finance the US debt. There are a few problems though. I don't see any solutions put fourth to reign in the debt mid to long term and the US needs to seriously consider getting rid of the so called Fed which is a privately owned central bank and one which charges the federal government interest on every dollar put into circulation.

In my opinion the US needs to go back to the pre 1913 model which made it not only the richest country in the world but also one that was financially sound and one with little debt.

Another thing the US should seriously consider is scaling back it's ridiculously bloated military industrial complex and reduce unnecessary spending and bases while maintaining a credible and strong military which won't be easy but is a necessity.

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/03/federal-reserve-bank-ownership/



Branko2166 on 02 January 2013

@Kasz216

http://www.globalresearch.ca/who-owns-the-federal-reserve/10489

There are plenty of links on both sides. But my point is still valid, even if the US central bank is a truly federal bank and not privately owned as you claim.



 

 

johnsobas on 02 January 2013

it doesn't really matter if the fed is independent or federal or a mix. The fed may as well be an arm of the government at this point all you have to do is look at their actions. In the 1980s they proved to be independent, but now Bernanke gets on his knees for Obama. It really doesn't matter either way, there should be no central planning of interest rates and money supply period.



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

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Bong Lover on 02 January 2013
HappySqurriel said:
theprof00 said:
obama is frustrated because congress is impotent. Whenever they can't agree to a debt ceiling it looks bad to the ratings companies. If we have unlimited credit, we can still argue about money but not have to worry about looking bad. It seems sound to me.

You're on a speeding train that is heading for brick wall and you're upset that the siren warning the conductor to apply breaks is too loud ...

The debt to GDP ratio has grown from (roughly) 40% in 2000 to over 100% today, the deficit is over $1 Trillion dollars and shows no signs of falling, unfunded liabilities are now starting to come due (pushing spending up), the credit rating is falling (pusing interest rates up), and we will likely see another recession in the next 5 years.


Please explain how the annual deficit shows no sign of falling?



sperrico87 on 02 January 2013
mrstickball said:
SpartenOmega117 said:
Metallicube said:
So we're gonna settle the problem of debt with more debt? Sounds logical to me... -_-


I don't think the United States was ever not in debt


There were many, many times the US was in significantly less debt than they are now.

Also, your other statement about Keynesian economics is wrong. We've had many times where government spending contracted and growth was rapid. Look no further than the 1990s: The government tightened up how much it spent over the whole decade, and we had a lot of growth. Comparatively, the 2000s saw rapid growth in government, and we ended on a horrible note in regards to the economy.


Metalli was being sarcastic, and it wasn't a Keynesian statement, it was very much a pro-Austrian economics statement, about how ridiculous it is that so many people think we can solve our debt problem by spending even more money.  It's nutty.



 

sperrico87 on 02 January 2013
Bong Lover said:
HappySqurriel said:
theprof00 said:
obama is frustrated because congress is impotent. Whenever they can't agree to a debt ceiling it looks bad to the ratings companies. If we have unlimited credit, we can still argue about money but not have to worry about looking bad. It seems sound to me.

You're on a speeding train that is heading for brick wall and you're upset that the siren warning the conductor to apply breaks is too loud ...

The debt to GDP ratio has grown from (roughly) 40% in 2000 to over 100% today, the deficit is over $1 Trillion dollars and shows no signs of falling, unfunded liabilities are now starting to come due (pushing spending up), the credit rating is falling (pusing interest rates up), and we will likely see another recession in the next 5 years.


Please explain how the annual deficit shows no sign of falling?

Because entitlement spending increases every year, medical care and social security costs increase every year due to inflation, and it takes up more and more of our annual budget.  Less people are working while more are retiring, leading to the system being lop-sided and therefore completely unsustainable.  What about this are you not grasping exactly?



 

Bong Lover on 02 January 2013
sperrico87 said:
Bong Lover said:
HappySqurriel said:
theprof00 said:
obama is frustrated because congress is impotent. Whenever they can't agree to a debt ceiling it looks bad to the ratings companies. If we have unlimited credit, we can still argue about money but not have to worry about looking bad. It seems sound to me.

You're on a speeding train that is heading for brick wall and you're upset that the siren warning the conductor to apply breaks is too loud ...

The debt to GDP ratio has grown from (roughly) 40% in 2000 to over 100% today, the deficit is over $1 Trillion dollars and shows no signs of falling, unfunded liabilities are now starting to come due (pushing spending up), the credit rating is falling (pusing interest rates up), and we will likely see another recession in the next 5 years.


Please explain how the annual deficit shows no sign of falling?

Because entitlement spending increases every year, medical care and social security costs increase every year due to inflation, and it takes up more and more of our annual budget.  Less people are working while more are retiring, leading to the system being lop-sided and therefore completely unsustainable.  What about this are you not grasping exactly?


The things I am not grasping exactly are theese:

1. Why do you answer when I was asking someone else?

2. How is this trend in annual deficits indicating there's no sign of them falling:

FY 2013*: $901 billion FY 2009†: $1,413 billion
FY 2012: $1,089 billion FY 2008: $459 billion
FY 2011: $1,300 billion FY 2007: $161 billion
FY 2010: $1,293 billion

Does this answer your question? Please let HappySquirel provide his explanantion the next time. I am not in a hurry, I can wait.



RedInker on 02 January 2013

Oi Obama. Americas debt is big enough. How about giving yourself some space from the ceiling by actually paying some of it back? Or do you really want to be the new Greece?