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Forums - General Discussion - You Don't Choose What To Believe In

riderz13371 said:
I believe that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you....stranger.


No You don't get to quote TDK



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GameOver22 said:
Well, I've never had any problem changing my beliefs....on multiple subjects....politics, religion, video games, the list goes on.

Do I actively choose to change my beliefs? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Its probably more accurate to say that my beliefs change as I gain more information, which it turn changes how I assess different arguments.


But if I told you to immediately change your stance on any subject, your response would be, "Why?".

Because your guts would still have the same opinion/beliefs. No one can blame you for choosing the "wrong" opinion/belief about something as long as your gained information is limited.



Halo4warduntodawn said:
riderz13371 said:
I believe that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you....stranger.


No You don't get to quote TDK




riderz13371 said:
Halo4warduntodawn said:
riderz13371 said:
I believe that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you....stranger.


No You don't get to quote TDK

 

Great shot kid that was one in a million 



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IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
GameOver22 said:
Well, I've never had any problem changing my beliefs....on multiple subjects....politics, religion, video games, the list goes on.

Do I actively choose to change my beliefs? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Its probably more accurate to say that my beliefs change as I gain more information, which it turn changes how I assess different arguments.


But if I told you to immediately change your stance on any subject, your response would be, "Why?".

Because your guts would still have the same opinion/beliefs. No one can blame you for having the "wrong" opinion on something as long as your gained information is limited.

Yes, but that doesn't mean people can't change their beliefs.

Furthermore, I don't undestand what you mean by guts. Its like your hypothesizing some mediator between gaining information and opinion change. For example, I believed that Iraq had WMDs back before the Iraq War. Later information came out that showed they didn't, which altered my beliefs. What your arguing is that I gained information, which changed my gut opinion, which changed my belief. Truthfully, the whole "gut opinion" step is unecessary because, in this formulation, changing a gut belief is the same as changing a belief. Regardless, I still changed my belief.

Personally, I think your being to negative about the ability of people to analyze arguments and alter their beliefs. Religious beliefs are a poor example because they are so central to people lives, but, even then, there are plenty of examples of people changing their religious beliefs. In other words, people don't just follow their gut reactions in all instances....they also analyze and assess arguments, which can in turn alter their beliefs.



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GameOver22 said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

But if I told you to immediately change your stance on any subject, your response would be, "Why?".

Because your guts would still have the same opinion/beliefs. No one can blame you for having the "wrong" opinion on something as long as your gained information is limited.

Yes, but that doesn't mean people can't change their beliefs.

Furthermore, I don't undestand what you mean by guts. Its like your hypothesizing some mediator between gaining information and opinion change. For example, I believed that Iraq had WMDs back before the Iraq War. Later information came out that showed they didn't, which altered my beliefs. What your arguing is that I gained information, which changed my gut opinion, which changed my belief. Truthfully, the whole "gut opinion" step is unecessary because, in this formulation, changing a gut belief is the same as changing a belief. Regardless, I still changed my belief.

Personally, I think your being to negative about the ability of people to analyze arguments and alter their beliefs. Religious beliefs are a poor example because they are so central to people lives, but, even then, there are plenty of examples of people changing their religious beliefs. In other words, people don't just follow their gut reactions in all instances....they also analyze and assess arguments, which can in turn alter their beliefs.


Well, to be honest it was unnecessary by me to mention the word "opinion" as the thread is supposed to be about beliefs.

If we go back to the example in the OP where a person did all he could but still failed to alter his beliefs, would you say that God is just if he says he should have believed in him despite his guts telling him not to believe in God? As you said, we are able to analyze and assess arguments, but if that didn't alter his beliefs then would God be fair if he said, "You should have ignored those feelings and believed in me anyway."? Even if we really are capable of selecting what to believe to some degree, I say God is cruel in that scenario.

Also, I used the expression 'guts' as it expresses a persons' true feelings without having to say "true feelings". It makes it easier to get the OP's message across, as I see it.



GameOver22 said:
Well, I've never had any problem changing my beliefs....on multiple subjects....politics, religion, video games, the list goes on.

Do I actively choose to change my beliefs? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Its probably more accurate to say that my beliefs change as I gain more information, which it turn changes how I assess different arguments.


The OP doesn't question whether we can alter our beliefs. It questions if we choose our beliefs.

IIIIITHE1IIIII said:


Well, to be honest it was unnecessary by me to mention the word "opinion" as the thread is supposed to be about beliefs.

If we go back to the example in the OP where a person did all he could but still failed to alter his beliefs, would you say that God is just if he says he should have believed in him despite his guts telling him not to believe in God? As you said, we are able to analyze and assess arguments, but if that didn't alter his beliefs then would God be fair if he said, "You should have ignored those feelings and believed in me anyway."? Even if we really are capable of selecting what to believe to some degree, I say God is cruel in that scenario.

Also, I used the expression 'guts' as it expresses a persons' true feelings without having to say "true feelings". It makes it easier to get across the OP's message, as I see it.

Aren't true feelings and beliefs just the same way of discussing the same thing, at least in the context of this discussion. I mean there is a difference between internal beliefs (more appropriately termed attitudes) and the outward expression of these beliefs. If someone truly feels God does not exist, it seeems redundant to say they also believe God does not exist. The connection between feeling and belief, at least in terms of internal attitudes, seems necessary to me.

Your argument seem to be that feelings come first and then affect beliefs. Personally, if feelings are conceptualized more broadly to mean prior predispositions, I think its a mixture as to which one comes first. Simply, some people form beliefs, and these beliefs then become internalized(beliefs form "feelings"). In turn these predispositions can then affect future judgements  ("feelings" affecting beliefs).

As to the God question, I don't think God would punish someone for failing to believe in him.



Jay520 said:
GameOver22 said:
Well, I've never had any problem changing my beliefs....on multiple subjects....politics, religion, video games, the list goes on.

Do I actively choose to change my beliefs? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Its probably more accurate to say that my beliefs change as I gain more information, which it turn changes how I assess different arguments.


The OP doesn't question whether we can alter our beliefs. It questions if we choose our beliefs.

Key sentence bolded.



I had a pretty intense ghost experience yet I still don't care about ghosts nor believe they are relevant to me. Sure perhaps I might be a semi believer now but it still doesn't register that high on my brain.